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  1. #3181
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Wow this sucked.
    And some of us were warning people to beware this whole mess even before the first issue was released.

    Just sayin' . . .

  2. #3182
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KangMiRae View Post
    I'm not convinced the bad reception of HiC didn't have at least some reason for TK being fired from Batman. This whole thing was strange.
    I dunno. Sure he’s been taken off of Batman but now he’s gonna instead be doing a Batman and Catwoman ongoing so not much has really changed about his position other than being taken off of Batman’s flagship title.

  3. #3183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    I dunno. Sure he’s been taken off of Batman but now he’s gonna instead be doing a Batman and Catwoman ongoing so not much has really changed about his position other than being taken off of Batman’s flagship title.
    I think it's less "HiC isn't getting great reception so we're booting King" than "we couldn't boot King if HiC was at the top of the charts" - maybe that's a meaningless distinction, but I kind of think not. Internal power struggles usually end up being about how much juice someone has, and King, at that time, didn't have a ton - Harras probably couldn't have pulled it off if HiC was selling 150K or if it was right after Batman 75 came out and that had sold 130K.
    Blue text denotes sarcasm

  4. #3184

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    Everything else aside, this was poorly written. I mean, you have a limited series run handed to you, it's assumed you have some idea of what you are doing and some coherence, something to say. You have plenty of time to figure out what you are doing and to write it, you have great artists to work with, so at least produce something of competence, something reads well (even if it isn't good - if you get what I mean). But what we get is this? Seriously, this was hard to read (not in an 'I'm illiterate' way, in the sense of, as someone who knows what writing is). I'd go and re-read the full 9 issues again to try and make sense of it but it's a slog that I'm not willing to do. I guess I'll just appreciate the pretty pictures if I even feel like flicking through this pile of crap again.

  5. #3185
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    https://www.cbr.com/sdcc-tom-king-ba...acle-catwoman/
    King:"People f*cking hated [Heroes in Crisis] so much. I've never written something someone hated so much. But I love it. I think I got the message I wanted to get across. I think, killing Wally [West], it was a tough hill for people to climb."

    King:"Wally was my Flash growing up. He was the Peter Parker of the DCU. It was tough on him because it was like the symbol of Rebirth killing people. First of all, Wally doesn't murder anyone, that doesn't happen. There's heroism in being vulnerable. To always say I'm strong is not to be strong, it's to be arrogant."

  6. #3186
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    A tough hill for people to climb.

    King lauding the fact that his comics are a Sisyphean struggle is amusing.

  7. #3187
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    By the way, since it's getting near September 2019, should the title of this thread be changed so that people don't think the sequel will be staring soon?

    (Hopefully there isn't anybody who would be likely to believe DC would have "Heroes in Infinite Crisis" coming anytime soon, but . . . )

  8. #3188
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    "Hey, I realize watching someone you love commit atrocities is hurtful, but like, I wanted to see it happen, you know? I love it. He didn't actually murder anyone, either. I'm going to disregard everything else and really hang my hat on how much I think I totally nailed this thing. You guys were wrong. My story is great, it's just a hard pill to swallow."

    One day Tom is going to crawl out of his own butt and just learn to apologize for missing the mark on a piece of fiction. It's okay to be wrong, buddy, but fess up to it.

  9. #3189
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Tom KIng's work has no middle ground. It fluctuates between horrible (HiC) and extraordinary (Mister Miracle, Omega Men, Vision). He's like a baseball player who swings for the fences every time he's at the plate and either hit it far out of the park, or misses so badly, he's on ESPN's worst plays of the year. It's one thing to discuss a single piece of his work and either extol it or rip it to shreds, but for Tom KIng overall as a person, I doubt any of us has a good idea about.
    He's mentioned that the only way he feels he can write will is to write what he knows, that he can't do big, fun comics for long term because that's simply not him. Most his recent work is about depression, death and trauma, usually centered on a man and involving the role of a strong woman in his life (HiC being what happens when she's not there, Wally himself referring to Linda with "I'm not blaming her but if she was here I'd be okay" nonsense). Connect the dots. I do hope he's in a healthy place and has come through the experience he draws from instead of currently in it. I genuinely don't have any personal malice towards the guy, but I do detest most his current work at DC.

    That said, he certainly does seem to be trying. I do wish he'd be able to internalize that the poor reception is not fans being too beholden to characters or not getting it, and simply apologize that he didn't execute his vision well.

    Nothing is wrong with making a mistake, but doubling down full stop doesn't inspire confidence in readership regarding his future projects. If he really thinks HiC was as wonderful as he lets on, I don't want to see what his mediocre stories are, let alone bad.
    Last edited by Robanker; 07-19-2019 at 10:17 AM.

  10. #3190
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    He's mentioned that the only way he feels he can write will is to write what he knows, that he can't do big, fun comics for long term because that's simply not him. Most his recent work is about depression, death and trauma, usually centered on a man and involving the role of a strong woman in his life (HiC being what happens when she's not there, Wally himself referring to Linda with "I'm not blaming her but if she was here I'd be okay" nonsense). Connect the dots. I do hope he's in a healthy place and has come through the experience he draws from instead of currently in it. I genuinely don't have any personal malice towards the guy, but I do detest most his current work at DC.

    That said, he certainly does seem to be trying. I do wish he'd be able to internalize that the poor reception is not fans being too beholden to characters or not getting it, and simply apologize that he didn't execute his vision well.

    Nothing is wrong with making a mistake, but doubling down full stop doesn't inspire confidence in readership regarding his future projects. If he really thinks HiC was as wonderful as he lets on, I don't want to see what his mediocre stories are, let alone bad.
    I think King projecting so much of his own life into his work is both a positive and a negative.

    With stuff like Mr. Miracle it seemed to work, but when it came to Wally and HiC it just seemed to mess everything up.

  11. #3191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Almost like it's denial. I hope he's not on the way to a breakdown. Regardless of my feelings towards his recent work, he is under a lot of pressure and I hope the endless negativity directed at him on social media isn't destroying the dude.
    Somethings very amiss when you are talking about CIA, Hollywood, that attitude to readers and Alan Moore in the same speech. Literally everything Alan stood against.

    Alan, Morrison etc could just be utter brats but listening to Tom King like that is like Phil Collins telling you hes the second coming of The Sex Pistols - just a bit weird

  12. #3192
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Plus the industry does. "Best Writer" and "Best Limited Series" Eisners tonight.

  13. #3193
    Stuck in Limbo again Red obin's Avatar
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    I'm honestly fed up of people attacking Tom King so personally. He mischaracterised a couple of characters, but didn't intend to do so or upset anyone. Now he's getting the usual slate of disproportionate backlash.
    "You can't be everywhere, you can't do it all"
    "I'm not Batman, I have friends."
    "But listen, call yourself Bat-Chick, Knightbat, or Black Robin- the point is, don't forget- you have a family."
    "You don't need me. This is a job for.........Alfred!" -Tim Drake

    "Dear Diary, I know what my next science project is going to be called: "My love/hate relationship with Gravity........And it was only then that young Stephanie truly realized gravity would forever be her enemy. "-Stephanie Brown

  14. #3194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red obin View Post
    I'm honestly fed up of people attacking Tom King so personally. He mischaracterised a couple of characters, but didn't intend to do so or upset anyone. Now he's getting the usual slate of disproportionate backlash.
    Oh, I wouldn't worry for him.
    The type of backlash people like King or Bendis get counts nothing in the real world and it's just a minority in comparison to a large majority of readers who simply don't want to express their opinion on the web in such an explicit way. A vocal minority, but a minority nonetheless.
    This backlash is way more toxic for forums or fan sites rather than for writers or their career.
    Educational town, Rolemodel city and Moralofthestory land are the places where good comics go to die.

    DC writers and editors looked up and shouted "Save us!"
    And Alan Moore looked down and whispered "No."

  15. #3195
    Duly appointed enforcer of the Admin Accord Matt's Avatar
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    I just deleted a bunch of posts that attacked a creator on a far too personal level.
    More than a handful of folks should be feeling lucky that they didn't earn a holiday from the forums for the content they posted.

    Do. Not. Make. Personal. Remarks. About. Creators.
    "Let me guess. My theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters, and you don't like my tie!"
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