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  1. #1
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Default Could a "Golden Age" Black Canary be in DC's future?

    About the possible JSA return under Rebirth, . . . when would the team return from? Who would still be on it at that point?

    In the DC Universe: Rebirth one-shot, we had Johnny Thunder tell Wally:


    "McCarthy yelled 'Take off your masks!' You know I was only trying to protect them. I'm sorry for what I did!"

    This would make it seem like it involves disappearing from the HUAC hearing in the 1950s, when the members testifying were
    * The Atom
    * Black Canary
    * Green Lantern
    * Hawkman
    * Flash
    * Doctor Mid-Nite
    (NOTE: Above list is based on the scene from DC Universe Legacies #2 (August 2010) as taken from the DC Universe: Legacies tpb collection. In Adventure Comics #466 (November-December 1979), when the story was first told, Golden Age Wonder Woman was also present.)



    If they try to bring back the JSA from that period in time, would they still include a Black Canary as a member (maybe as current Dinah's great-aunt or grandmother, perhaps?), or instead substitute a different Golden Age female character?

    One other reason to speculate that there could have been a "Golden Age Black Canary" is an image used on the back cover of a special midnight version of DC Universe: Rebirth and on the DC Comics Previews for DC's June solicitations.



    What do other people think could happen if / when we ever learn more about the JSA in the revised Rebirth DC Universe?
    Last edited by MajorHoy; 08-15-2019 at 01:11 PM. Reason: replaced missing image

  2. #2
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    I think it could work.
    Too bad we never got a proper new Golden Age Black Canary run.
    I'd have loved to have seen her done 'Sandman Mystery Theatre'-style, perhaps by Ed Brubaker and Tommy Lee Edwards or Michael Lark, with Veronica Lake used as reference.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  3. #3
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    I'd like all the original JSAers brought back--including Wonder Woman. If they're on another Earth, then this wouldn't be a problem. That would be my ideal--but even on the same Earth as the JLA, they could probably have the whole roster (just not Superman and Batman, who were never full-time members).
    And you won't read that book again,
    Because the ending's just too hard to take.

  4. #4
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I'd like all the original JSAers brought back--including Wonder Woman. If they're on another Earth, then this wouldn't be a problem. That would be my ideal--but even on the same Earth as the JLA, they could probably have the whole roster (just not Superman and Batman, who were never full-time members).
    But don't forget, I don't think Wonder Woman was technically a full-fledged member back in the Golden Age. She was a girl ( ) and was their "recording secretary" who didn't even earn her own individual chapter for a long time.
    Of course, we could always pull the John Byrne retcon where Hippolyta went back in time and became the "Golden Age Wonder Woman".

  5. #5
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    I'm so torn on certain legacy beats - like introducing legacy elements really mucked around with Black Canary's timeline and narrative, and I'm a person who believes that all the Golden Age heroes should be able to stand shoulder-to-shoulder and be updated down the ages and divorced from their WWII origins the same way Batman, Aquaman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Arrow, and the rest are constantly refreshed. But man I like the whole occasional "mother/daughter" superhero dynamic.

    In the case of Black Canary, no character had a worse weird hijinx happen to them as bad as she did. (Well, maybe Power Girl?) And I like the notion of Black Canary being a prime holistic version of herself, in one character. I thought Fletcher's run did a really intelligent nod to the Golden Age origin by still having her mother be a legendary martial arts figure, hero, and woman of mystery in her own right - essentially the same bad-ass martial artist scrappy woman, just without the Black Canary costume motif trappings, which then Dinah gets to completely "Own" the way Bruce Wayne owns Batman.

    Anyway that said, I won't be like balking if they bring back a pure post-Crisis version of an in-timeline JSA, Dinah Drake included. I really miss those guys, and as long as they're somehow aged down to resemble themselves in their prime I'll tolerate a WWII time-jump retcon or something - especially if the time hijinx can be used to explain DCU Rebirth timeline inconsistencies well enough.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    I think it could work.
    Too bad we never got a proper new Golden Age Black Canary run.
    I'd have loved to have seen her done 'Sandman Mystery Theatre'-style, perhaps by Ed Brubaker and Tommy Lee Edwards or Michael Lark, with Veronica Lake used as reference.
    Same here! I suggested a similar series some time ago. I think Black Canary really works best in that setting/era. Her modern day stuff is fine -- but that Golden Age look and vibe really worked well.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    But don't forget, I don't think Wonder Woman was technically a full-fledged member back in the Golden Age. She was a girl ( ) and was their "recording secretary" who didn't even earn her own individual chapter for a long time.
    Of course, we could always pull the John Byrne retcon where Hippolyta went back in time and became the "Golden Age Wonder Woman".
    Actually this is proof of how popular Wonder Woman was. She joined the JSA and had an adventure or two with them--but she got her own quarterly so quick that nearly no time passed before she had to give up her active role in the Society--because of the rules at that time which said any member who gets their own title can't be an active member. This is the rule that forced the Flash and then the Green Lantern to give up their active membership in the JSA. And presumably this is why Superman and Batman stayed honourary members (given they both had their own titles before the Justice Society was formed).

    But because Sheldon Mayer wanted to find some way to keep the popular Amazon in ALL-STAR COMICS, they bent the rules to let her stay on as the secretry. Maybe also Mayer and Gardner Fox realized that the Society was a sausage factory in need of female input. Girls read comics, too! However, William Moulton Marston was so controlling that he didn't want other hands pawing his Princess Diana. And I guess Mayer and Fox found it hard to work with Marston--so the idea of giving Wonder Woman her own chapters in the ALL-STAR was soon dropped. Yet she would appear on the covers, in the framing sequences and attach her name to all the membership forms for the Junior Justice Society.

    Those framing sequences got longer and longer relative to the individual chapters. And the rule excluding the Flash and GL was eventually dropped in 1945, as Wonder Woman also started to have a more active role in the Justice Society. And once Martson died in 1947, there was no one to keep Wonder Woman out of participating fully in the Society adventures.
    And you won't read that book again,
    Because the ending's just too hard to take.

  8. #8
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    I have to say I would be curious to see them trying to connect the Golden Age BLack Canary with the modern one and NOT have it be a Mother-Daughter relationship thing.

    Maybe a Grandmother-Granddaughter thing ?

  9. #9
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    Given DC has an infinite multiverse, I don't see why we can't have a world devoted to a continuity that existed for fifty years and covered thousands of actual DC stories. Some of the other Earths in the DC multiverse never even had one comic of their own.

    It shouldn't be an either/or. There can be a world with updated characters and another world that preserves the original history. Similar characters can exist on parallel worlds. Isn't that the whole idea behind the multiverse?

    However, it is funny that there's a Dinah Lance on one of these worlds who has no connection to Dinah Drake. Drake was the original Black Canary. It's like all the steps that led from original BC to modern BC were erased and now we just have the final result of all those steps. Which is something that's happened a lot for DC characters. There's all this background that led to their creation, but then that's rubbed out and we're left with characters detached from their origins.

    It's a curious phenomenon. Maybe there should be a comic book about that.
    And you won't read that book again,
    Because the ending's just too hard to take.

  10. #10
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Given DC has an infinite multiverse, I don't see why we can't have a world devoted to a continuity that existed for fifty years and covered thousands of actual DC stories. Some of the other Earths in the DC multiverse never even had one comic of their own.

    It shouldn't be an either/or. There can be a world with updated characters and another world that preserves the original history. Similar characters can exist on parallel worlds. Isn't that the whole idea behind the multiverse?
    Logically, there should be another Earth in the Multiverse where old stories still actually happened.

    In the minds of the "creative" types in charge of DC? Hell, apparently even they don't know what's logical or not!

    I've always felt the best way to do the New 52 would have been to re-apply the way they (eventually) transitioned from the Golden Age to the Silver Age. Let the there still be a pre-Flashpoint Earth exist in the multiverse. DC wouldn't have to use it / refer to it unless they wanted to, but at least let old-time readers (like the Wally-whiners) feel their Earth was still around somewhere. (It wouldn't cause people to stop complaining, but maybe they wouldn't feel quite so bitter.)

    As for the relationship between a Golden Age Black Canary and the current one seen in the Rebirth books, DC really wouldn't be treading radically new ground by changing it from mother-daughter to a blood-relation with more generational differences. Anybody remember how present-day Sharon Carter was originally related to World War II era's Peggy Carter over at Marvel?

  11. #11
    a man who created images dr-brainwave's Avatar
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    i'd love to see the original Black Canary return and i'd like her to team up with Johnny Thunder, her original partner.

  12. #12
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    Dr. Brainwave, your post reminded me of one of my favorite stories involving both Black Canary and Johnny Thunder in the original run of Justice League of America (219-220 or thereabouts). That script really played up on Johnny having romantic feelings for Dinah. This story really humanized poor Johnny in a way that I don't think he had been up to that point and really wouldn't be again until James Robinson's Golden Age mini-series in the early 90s.
    Last edited by Stingo; 09-29-2016 at 01:42 PM.

  13. #13
    a man who created images dr-brainwave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stingo View Post
    Dr. Brainwave, your post reminded me of one of my favorite stories involving both Black Canary and Johnny Thunder in the original run of Justice League of America (219-220 or thereabouts). That script really played up on Johnny having romantic feelings for Dinah. This story really humanized poor Johnny in a way that I don't think he had been up to that point and really wouldn't be again until James Robinson's Golden Age mini-series in the early 90s.

    Hi Stingo! indeed JLA 219/220 is the story i was thinking about when i wrote my previous post, most people associates Black Canary with Green Arrow but in reality she first appeared in a Johnny Thunder Story in Flash Comics #86:





    and she remained Johnny's partner for quite some time:


    Black-Canary-DC-Comics-Earliest-3.jpg


    i agree, Gerry Conway did a terrific job in humanizing Johnny in that JSA/JLA crossover, in Len Strazewski and Mike Parobeck's Justice Society of America run Johnny was well portrayed as well, he was not the comic relief of the JSA anymore there was even a reference of his longtime partnership with the Black Canary in a panel where he visits Dinah's grave (if i recall correctly).
    Last edited by dr-brainwave; 09-30-2016 at 07:57 AM.

  14. #14

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    Conversely, Roy Thomas's portrayal of Johnny seemed to be formed out of a mix of his own personal feelings and his habit of seeing himself as the "caretaker" of the Golden Age status quo. I don't have the original issues anymore, but I remember when he was writing Secret Origins in the 80's and covered Johnny Thunder; when a reader wrote in and made a remark about how 'Johnny was never really dumb, just naive and a dreamer,' Thomas shot back in the letter column, "No, Johnny was dumb." Point being, Roy didn't seem too interested in humanizing the established characters if he felt they had sufficiently established personalities already, and certainly not characters he himself wasn't personally attached to.

  15. #15
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I really hope DC keeps the mess that is Dinah's history out of continuity from here on out.

    Dinah is like the poster child for everything that went wrong with the multiverse concept before Crisis. I think the convoluted history of Black Canary is one of the biggest hurdles that has kept her from achieving a greater level of popularity. I mean, she's one of the originals and she's endured for decades, yet she's never been able to get above C-list status (arguably B-list) and I think her screwed up history is a part of that. Fans love their origin tales after all, but Dinah's requires like, two decades of hardcore reading and evaluation to make sense of.....and even then it doesnt make much sense.

    I'd be perfectly fine if they just forgot that there was ever a Black Canary during WWII.
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