“Heroes in Crisis” Limited Series by Tom King & Clay Mann to Start in September

[phantom1592]

This is a stupid lie. They didn't kill a Flash in Infinite Crisis. They didn't kill a Flash in Final Crisis. The didn't kill a Flash in Identity Crisis. They didn't kill a Flash in Zero Hour: Crisis in Time.

There is literally only one Crisis where The Flash died and that was Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Anyhow, here you go: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/09...s-kill-bunker/

Not really, Infinite Crisis sent Wally into the speed force (AGAIN)… then they even shoved Bart Allen into it too. Effectivly 'killing' both Flashes till Bart came back later and revealed the 'Speed force' itself was dead.

Zero Hour also had Wally end up in the Speed Force.

Regardless of the legitimacy of these 'deaths'... there is a grand (stupid) history of DC's Crisis' of having someone standing there holding an empty Flash uniform





Barry made it famous, but Wally is the one they usually 'kill' for these stupid things.... then in a year or less they bring him back. I expect the same treatment here.

[Agent Z]

In part, this is the theme of Watchmen - how much of an oddity a superhero would be in the real world.

For sure... The idea of "what if superheroes were REALLY REAL" isn't new, but King is taking that idea in a specific direction, in examining how heroes would deal with grief and what their ideas of therapy would be. Even looking at who would be willing to accept any kind of psychological help in the first place, and who would shun it altogether.

Difference is, that worked in Watchmen because it had it's own planned beginning and end. It doesn't work in the DCU where this whole thing will be swept under the rug in a few months' time.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Thpough I never liked Bart becoming Kid Flash, I do miss those awesome Mike Mckeone ridiculously intricate big yellow boots.

Another casualty of Flash: Rebirth.

[Konja7]

Not really, Infinite Crisis sent Wally into the speed force (AGAIN)… then they even shoved Bart Allen into it too. Effectivly 'killing' both Flashes till Bart came back later and revealed the 'Speed force' itself was dead.

Zero Hour also had Wally end up in the Speed Force.

Regardless of the legitimacy of these 'deaths'... there is a grand (stupid) history of DC's Crisis' of having someone standing there holding an empty Flash uniform





Barry made it famous, but Wally is the one they usually 'kill' for these stupid things.... then in a year or less they bring him back. I expect the same treatment here.

Thank you for this information.

So, it seems to be a (horrible) tradition for Wally in the Crisis.

I guess, as Didio said, Tom King wants to mantain the (horrible) tradition.

[Montressor]

Thank you for the answer.

According to Didio, the death of Wally (or, at least, a Flash) is idea of King. Didio say this in an interview:

"We did an interview and a panel, and God bless Tom King for reminding me of my own statements," the Co-Publisher said. "He said, 'I take the word Crisis very seriously. I remember when Dan did an interview in 2007 and said you can't have the word Crisis and have a live Flash. You've got to kill a Flash every Crisis. I take those things to heart.' I didn't give him that thought.

https://www.google.com.pe/amp/s/www....is-deaths/amp/

This is the stupidest shit ever. 'In order to have a Crisis a Flash must die'. Ridiculous. So no matter what, 'regardless of how well the book may be selling at the time, if we need to do yet another of our dumbass reboots for no reason the Flash must die. The readers and fans think this is so cool when we do this.'

Didio or whoever approves this crap is an idiot.

[phantom1592]

Frankly they've over used the term 'Crisis'. HiC isn't a Crisis... Identity Crisis wasn't a Crisis.... There is MUCH longer history of the term 'Crisis' indicating a threat to the multiverse. Crisis on earth 2, crisis on Earth X, Crisis on infinite Earths, Even Zero hour Crisis in Time.... infinite Crisis...

If your story isn't about every hero you can get striving to save save the universe as you know it from being utterly destroyed... with or without a company wide relaunch... Stop calling it Crisis.

[Dred]

Not really, Infinite Crisis sent Wally into the speed force (AGAIN)… then they even shoved Bart Allen into it too. Effectivly 'killing' both Flashes till Bart came back later and revealed the 'Speed force' itself was dead.

Zero Hour also had Wally end up in the Speed Force.

Regardless of the legitimacy of these 'deaths'... there is a grand (stupid) history of DC's Crisis' of having someone standing there holding an empty Flash uniform





Barry made it famous, but Wally is the one they usually 'kill' for these stupid things.... then in a year or less they bring him back. I expect the same treatment here.

In neither of these situations was he viewed as dead, especially Zero Hour. He was back within the month. His solo series didn't even have a blip, just a (all time great) tie in issue #0.

In that very same Infinite Crisis follow up story they mention how Wally is on the other side, happy and healthu with Linda and his kids. Bart's lying to Jay here because he doesn't want to use his powers. He knows Wally's on the other side as Wally and some other speedsters lended him their speed so he could beat Prime back after he escaped. This was all while Infinite Crisis was still going on IIRC.

Barry died. He was given a send off to save the universe. Wally disappeared like halfway into the story and never mattered and was almost immediately revealed as alive in both instances.

And again, this ignores Identity Crisis which killed no Flash and Final Crisis which brought a Flash back.

Frankly they've over used the term 'Crisis'. HiC isn't a Crisis... Identity Crisis wasn't a Crisis.... There is MUCH longer history of the term 'Crisis' indicating a threat to the multiverse. Crisis on earth 2, crisis on Earth X, Crisis on infinite Earths, Even Zero hour Crisis in Time.... infinite Crisis...

If your story isn't about every hero you can get striving to save save the universe as you know it from being utterly destroyed... with or without a company wide relaunch... Stop calling it Crisis.

If they consider HiC a Crisis then Identity Crisis, its terrible spiritual predecessor, counts too.

[phantom1592]

Well, now it's considered that Barry never died either. "Runs so fast he joins the speed force heaven," is what Wally keeps doing. Sometimes he replaced by Bart... sometimes by that John Fox guy, I think Jesse Quick took his spot once... but the characters in the universe.... they pretty much count him as dead till he 'does the impossible' by coming back.

[Dred]

Well, now it's considered that Barry never died either. "Runs so fast he joins the speed force heaven," is what Wally keeps doing. Sometimes he replaced by Bart... sometimes by that John Fox guy, I think Jesse Quick took his spot once... but the characters in the universe.... they pretty much count him as dead till he 'does the impossible' by coming back.

When Barry died there was no Speed Force. This is a trivial distinction. This is about how the stories and characters are written and handled. Barry was written to die, which is why his death was given great significance. The details of how they retcon that death thirty years after the fact don't change this. The narrative purpose of Barry in COIE was to die and save the universe.

[Naked Bat]

I take back what I said a few days ago. I wasn't enamored with issues 1 and 2, but issue 3 is where the story really begins, and it does a lot of interesting stuff.

[failo.legendkiller]

Nice try by Mr King.

I do blame him for his crapping on Duke Thomas in Batman but not this. This is NOT the story he wanted to do.

When? where? in which issue? I cannot miss that!

[BatmanJones]

I take back what I said a few days ago. I wasn't enamored with issues 1 and 2, but issue 3 is where the story really begins, and it does a lot of interesting stuff.

Especially if you take into account Rikdad's (always) excellent thoughts on 1-3 which are posted in the Mystery thread. Here's a link:

http://rikdad.blogspot.com/2018/11/h...signs-and.html

And in case it hasn't been mentioned here (avoiding this thread mostly for fear of spoilers), the final panel of #3 was not for nothing. That character's appearance is likely to be meaningful. For some excellent background from Bored at 3AM, check out the HiC mystery thread. The stuff on the significance of the final panel begins on page three but really gets going further into the thread.

[Naked Bat]

Especially if you take into account Rikdad's (always) excellent thoughts on 1-3 which are posted in the Mystery thread. Here's a link:

http://rikdad.blogspot.com/2018/11/h...signs-and.html

And in case it hasn't been mentioned here (avoiding this thread mostly for fear of spoilers), the final panel of #3 was not for nothing. That character's appearance is likely to be meaningful. For some excellent background from Bored at 3AM, check out the HiC mystery thread. The stuff on the significance of the final panel begins on page three but really gets going further into the thread.

Thank you for the link. Rikdad always do a tremendous job in his analysis!

[Konja7]

In neither of these situations was he viewed as dead, especially Zero Hour. He was back within the month. His solo series didn't even have a blip, just a (all time great) tie in issue #0.

In that very same Infinite Crisis follow up story they mention how Wally is on the other side, happy and healthu with Linda and his kids. Bart's lying to Jay here because he doesn't want to use his powers. He knows Wally's on the other side as Wally and some other speedsters lended him their speed so he could beat Prime back after he escaped. This was all while Infinite Crisis was still going on IIRC.

Barry died. He was given a send off to save the universe. Wally disappeared like halfway into the story and never mattered and was almost immediately revealed as alive in both instances.

And again, this ignores Identity Crisis which killed no Flash and Final Crisis which brought a Flash back.

According to Didio, King was inspired by his words in an interview in 2007.

I've never read that interview. So, I don't know why Didio would say in 2007 (before Final Crisis) that a Flash should die in a Crisis when that isn't right.


It seems to be true Didio say that (although I don't find the interview yet), so it's likely the inspiration for King.

[jpmst17]

we're dealing with booster gold here. i bet any money wally is back by the end of this, and if he's not, dc can kiss my money goodbye. i refuse to support a company that puts out something as dumb as what happened to wally this issue. absolutely stupid