“Heroes in Crisis” Limited Series by Tom King & Clay Mann to Start in September

[Raijin]

The only time Roy relapsed was Rise of Arsenal.

Exactly! Which was years ago. People like to exaggerate. If one doesn't care for a character, that's fine. But don't make things up. It's also flat out ignorant to say no one would care if a character will die. Speak for yourself. Every character has their fans, whether you like it or not.

[phantom1592]

A crisis center were people get help for their trauma is the opposite of dark and gritty.

Nope. A crisis center is where people go when life gets so dark and gritty and they've reached the bottom and need help to pull themselves back up. They can go there to talk about all the sewers of crap they've sludged through and hopefully find the help to rise above it. In a medium that has spent 80 years of heroes being better, stronger and having more grit than the rest of humanity... introducing a trauma center like this is the epitome of pointing out how dark and gritty their lives are.


And yeah... then having them get killed there is a whole other level of WTH... ESPECIALLY with the whole Rebirth mentality being thrown around.

[Agent Z]

Nope. A crisis center is where people go when life gets so dark and gritty and they've reached the bottom and need help to pull themselves back up. They can go there to talk about all the sewers of crap they've sludged through and hopefully find the help to rise above it. In a medium that has spent 80 years of heroes being better, stronger and having more grit than the rest of humanity... introducing a trauma center like this is the epitome of pointing out how dark and gritty their lives are.


And yeah... then having them get killed there is a whole other level of WTH... ESPECIALLY with the whole Rebirth mentality being thrown around.

Firstly, superheroes haven't been better than the rest of humanity since at least the 80s, if not sooner than that.

A crisis center, is a place where people go to get help. Dark and gritty is garbage like Injustice or Rise of Arsenal where the heroes go down an ugly path with no one to help them out.

This story is dark because it's a murder mystery. It taking place in a crisis center - a place where people expect to feel safe - isn't what makes it dark. In fact, people seeking help for their problems is one of the most optimistic and inspirational stories you can write about superheroes especially given this genre's appalling track record with depicting mental illness and PTSD.

[MajorHoy]

The crisis center in question predates this story.

When/where did this Crisis Center for superheroes first appear in DC comic book stories?

[BatmanJones]

The crisis center in question predates this story. And the poster I responded too was saying the idea of s crisis center itself was dark and gritty not the fact that it was a backdrop for a murder mystery.

Thank you for your posts in this thread.

The only reason people are calling a trauma center "grim dark" is because of the stigma surrounding mental and emotional health. Someone posted a ways back about how they didn't want their heroes to need a trauma center because heroes shouldn't be "weak." Or some equally insulting word.

If a hero is meant to soldier on through emotional health issues they shouldn't have any trouble with two broken legs either. Physical health is not more serious or more real than mental health.

Thank goodness for Tom King who, having been in the CIA, knows something about real heroes (soldiers for example) suffering real trauma and is sensitive enough to introduce a concept like Sanctuary to the DCU.

One day the stigma that surrounds mental and emotional health will be overcome but we're nowhere near that day when someone calls a "hero" weak (or anything like it) for seeking help recovering from trauma.

[Agent Z]

When/where did this Crisis Center for superheroes first appear in DC comic book stories?

Tom King's Batman run.

[MajorHoy]

Tom King's Batman run.

And considering that mess, it's not exactly helping your argument regarding that crisis center not being "grim and dark".
(After all, King had the story where more people were killed by terrorists at an orphanage in Gotham City named for Thomas and Martha Wayne than were killed in our real world by the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma back in 1995!)

[Agent Z]

And considering that mess, it's not exactly helping your argument regarding that crisis center not being "grim and dark".
(After all, King had the story where more people were killed by terrorists at an orphanage in Gotham City named for Thomas and Martha Wayne than were killed in our real world by the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma back in 1995!)

Not everything in King's run was dark and gritty. It isn't even the darkest Batman run ever produced. Your point was the crisis center was introduced first in Heroes in Crisis. It wasnt. It was brought in during a story which ended with Ivy going to said center to seek help.

[Godlike13]

The only time Roy relapsed was Rise of Arsenal.

Roy relapsed in Titans.

Exactly! Which was years ago. People like to exaggerate. If one doesn't care for a character, that's fine. But don't make things up. It's also flat out ignorant to say no one would care if a character will die. Speak for yourself. Every character has their fans, whether you like it or not.

Who would care as in Roy isn't far reaching or important to much of anything, and so the ripples would be weak. Green Arrow, Jason Todd, and Donna Troy might shed a tear. But even with them its not gonna change anything they are doing.

[SiegePerilous02]

Thank you for your posts in this thread.

The only reason people are calling a trauma center "grim dark" is because of the stigma surrounding mental and emotional health. Someone posted a ways back about how they didn't want their heroes to need a trauma center because heroes shouldn't be "weak." Or some equally insulting word.

If a hero is meant to soldier on through emotional health issues they shouldn't have any trouble with two broken legs either. Physical health is not more serious or more real than mental health.

Thank goodness for Tom King who, having been in the CIA, knows something about real heroes (soldiers for example) suffering real trauma and is sensitive enough to introduce a concept like Sanctuary to the DCU.

One day the stigma that surrounds mental and emotional health will be overcome but we're nowhere near that day when someone calls a "hero" weak (or anything like it) for seeking help recovering from trauma.

I recall when it was announced that it was to be revealed Bruce cut himself following the deaths of his parents in King's run, people freaked out. Some posters even said he shouldn't be "weak" like that. Keep in mind they were talking about a traumatized 10 year old.

I found a lot of the reactions, particularly those ones, pretty appalling. And I do not see anything remotely grim and gritty about superheroes seeking help for trauma. it needs to be handled well and with variances depending on the characters featured, but it's not inherently a bad, nihilistic idea and in fact seems to be the opposite. We don't know how the issues will be tackled in this separate from the murder mystery. Once the mystery is solved, the center will hopefully stick around and who knows? Maybe there will be some optimism featured in the stories with some characters on the road to recovery.

[MajorHoy]

. . . I do not see anything remotely grim and gritty about superheroes seeking help for trauma. it needs to be handled well and with variances depending on the characters featured, but it's not inherently a bad, nihilistic idea and in fact seems to be the opposite.

The concept of a center isn't the problem.

We don't know how the issues will be tackled in this separate from the murder mystery. Once the mystery is solved, the center will hopefully stick around and who knows? Maybe there will be some optimism featured in the stories with some characters on the road to recovery.

The fact that it will be the focus of a murder mystery so early in its existence is the big problem.
Maybe it will prove to be useful / a positive thing later on, but we don't have any clue as to if or when it may be used beyond this coming story. And that concerns me.

[Frontier]

Roy relapsed in Titans.

So 2-3 times he's relapsed compared to a longer history of getting clean and making something of himself.

[Godlike13]

So 2-3 times he's relapsed compared to a longer history of getting clean and making something of himself.

Roy doesn’t average many stories a year. The stories he does get have involved his addiction in one form or another. That’s his cycle. He gets clean, but he doesn’t stay clean. Or it’s about the temption. My point is, it always comes back. So I don’t see how one could say he has moved beyond his addition issues when it’s still defines many of his stories.

Roy’s not really a success story. He’s a tragic character, and he doesn’t really have a lot going for him right now. Him dying while trying to get help would just make his tragic story all that more tragic.

[Nite-Wing]

People complain about characters getting killed but I bet every month DC kills a named character and the outrage is mute because someone either doesn't care or doesn't know it happened.
Roy or Kyle getting killed now is kinda like that
They are pretty much wallpaper until someone does something with them.

[Crazy Diamond]

Thank you for your posts in this thread.

The only reason people are calling a trauma center "grim dark" is because of the stigma surrounding mental and emotional health. Someone posted a ways back about how they didn't want their heroes to need a trauma center because heroes shouldn't be "weak." Or some equally insulting word.

If a hero is meant to soldier on through emotional health issues they shouldn't have any trouble with two broken legs either. Physical health is not more serious or more real than mental health.

Thank goodness for Tom King who, having been in the CIA, knows something about real heroes (soldiers for example) suffering real trauma and is sensitive enough to introduce a concept like Sanctuary to the DCU.

One day the stigma that surrounds mental and emotional health will be overcome but we're nowhere near that day when someone calls a "hero" weak (or anything like it) for seeking help recovering from trauma.

They should just use original characters for this story then so they don't have to deal with people being like "Why the hell would I wan't to read about Batman having depression?"

CIA isn't a force for good in this world. Hey maybe they'll do a story about some superheroes working with the CIA to engineer coups around the world too.