“Heroes in Crisis” Limited Series by Tom King & Clay Mann to Start in September

[Jokerz79]

King better not put Bronze Tiger in this story.

It's never a good sign when we don't want characters in a story.

[CaptCleghorn]

The more I hear, the worse it sounds.

Why on Earth does Didio hate the legacy characters of the DCU??
Roy, Dick, Wally, Garth, Kyle - all have been screwed in various severity.
Then there's the JSA and Infinty Inc - completely ignored.

There is SO much more to DC than the Silver Age reiterations of these characters!
Stop pissing on everything that doesn't meet your ideal PLEASE and embrace what makes the DCU great.

Yeah. There is a lot to DC's long storied history and so much is available. But if the intention is to tell ONE story for ONE universe then you lose the variety and diversity of eighty years of stories and the characters that came about over that four score year stretch.

[Arsenal]

DC should’ve used the new 52 initiative to push out most of the older generation and have the legacies take over.

[byrd156]

DC should’ve used the new 52 initiative to push out most of the older generation and have the legacies take over.

They should've done that without the New 52.

[Sacred Knight]

They shouldn't have done that regardless of the initiative and should never do it. Going too far with legacy is just as great if not greater a sin than disrespecting it.

[Agent Z]

Than no one in the Super Family would count since they've never taken his name even when dead except Lex Luthor which is funny. If you continue the legacy of a hero you are a legacy hero IMO.

There have been two Superboys (Connor and Jon) three different Supergirls (Kara, Cir-El and Linda) and two Power Girls (Karen and Tanya). Also, two Steels (John Henry and Natasha).

So yeah, they are legacy characters. Just not legacy characters who took Superman's name.

[Jokerz79]

DC should’ve used the new 52 initiative to push out most of the older generation and have the legacies take over.

DC did a good job in the 90's with GL, Flash, and GA all having been successfully replaced but then people like Kevin Smith and Geoff Johns wanted to write the characters they grew up with and DC said okay. I honestly blame Didio for decades legacies have been allowed to grow and move on but Didio apparently feels they age the older characters and rather have the older proteges and golden age heroes disappear IMO.

[Vordan]

DC should’ve used the new 52 initiative to push out most of the older generation and have the legacies take over.

There are a few who have supplanted the originals. Jamie is Blue Beetle to the average person, not Ted. But replacing everyone at once didn’t really work for Marvel. There were a few breakouts but not really enough which is why the old characters came back.

[DragonPiece]

Do you guys think the marketing for this book will work? Literally the only thing we talk about for this book is worrying over which character will do. King tried to market it about the mental health of heroes, yet DC is marketing it the complete opposite.

[skyvolt2000]

There are a few who have supplanted the originals. Jamie is Blue Beetle to the average person, not Ted. But replacing everyone at once didn’t really work for Marvel. There were a few breakouts but not really enough which is why the old characters came back.

Those guys were ALWAYS coming back. Like they have every other time. And excluding Bruce Banner-the old guys were around in some form.

DC did a good job in the 90's with GL, Flash, and GA all having been successfully replaced but then people like Kevin Smith and Geoff Johns wanted to write the characters they grew up with and DC said okay. I honestly blame Didio for decades legacies have been allowed to grow and move on but Didio apparently feels they age the older characters and rather have the older proteges and golden age heroes disappear IMO

Exactly. We had folks get replace and then come back. The replacement got a new name and stayed.

Conner & John Henry replaced Superman and later got their own books.
John Henry is DC's most success black hero with a solo run.
Cassandra is the most successful female of color with a solo run. (Depending on your view of Catwoman as a POC)
Kyle is the most successful POC with a solo run.
Tim, Conner & Bart make up 400. Miles Morales needs 2.5 years to reach 100.

Funny these legacies are boasting more success than guys like Cyborg. Yet in the late 2000s-someone wants to get rid of them.

King tried to market it about the mental health of heroes, yet DC is marketing it the complete opposite.

I think if King was ALLOWED to build this up over time and build up "victims" like Hotspot-the reaction would be different.

In other words if Tom was allowed to make us CARE (or even care more) about Roy & Hotspot or even a Z list guys like Newsboy Legion-you would get a better story. And prove the right write can make you care about anyone.

Instead this sounds like a butcher fest to get rid of folks or make you Carol Civil War 2 Danvers HATE a person.

[docmidnite]

Sure, but for a while there in the 90's readers got to have their cake & eat it too.
John/Guy & Kyle

Not the greatest example for me and some other fans out there.

John being ignored by the DC Editors (because John as a Guardian who was mentally connected with the rest of the Guardians and never could have slept through any cosmic event and could have easily stopped Hal and saved the GLC would have ruined the story they were telling) during ET, having his Guardianhood stripped of him, being demoted to a Darkstar, and then being crippled/left wheelchair bound so he could have a small supporting role giving Kyle advice every once in a while was definitely not "having our cake and eating it too" as most John fans would tell you.

Thank goodness Bruce Timm came along and the JL/U cartoon forced DC to correct that mistake or Johns would have had to bring him back in GL: Rebirth like he did with Guy and Sinestro as well (poor Guy, first being stripped of his ring like Alan Scott eventually was, being turned into the secret "alien love child of Metamorpho and the Ultimate Warrior", having his book cancelled and ending up in and out of limbo for years, dying in OWAW, ending up in Hell... no wonder he drinks )

[Frontier]

Those guys were ALWAYS coming back. Like they have every other time. And excluding Bruce Banner-the old guys were around in some form.

Wasn't that kind of the problem though?

Most of the replacement stories didn't seem geared towards the original actually returning, so when Marvel inevitably started having the originals return they were left with even more disgruntled and disappointed fans.

[Johnny]

DC did a good job in the 90's with GL, Flash, and GA all having been successfully replaced but then people like Kevin Smith and Geoff Johns wanted to write the characters they grew up with and DC said okay. I honestly blame Didio for decades legacies have been allowed to grow and move on but Didio apparently feels they age the older characters and rather have the older proteges and golden age heroes disappear IMO.

When it comes to replacements of "iconic" heroes, Wally was really the only character that had successfully replaced his predecessor without running out of steam in a few years. The fact that he had been there almost from the start had a lot to do with it, since he wasn't a character that was specifically created to replace another character, he was his long-time sidekick and protege. That's why there's no better example of a successful legacy character than Wally West. The same way if DC ever got serious about "permanently" offing Bruce, Dick would've been the only guy fans would've accepted as the new "permanent" Batman.

As for the others, DC struggled what to do with Kyle less than a decade after his creation and Connor lasted even less than that. Now, Jaime is a better example but Blue Beetle is hardly on a GL/Flash/GA level of popularity, not to mention DC never invested in Ted the way they did in Hal, Barry and Oliver for so many years, so him being replaced wouldn't have generated the same level of outrage. There was still outrage, but rather due to the way DC chose to kill Ted off, not so much for replacing him in general.

[Sacred Knight]

Do you guys think the marketing for this book will work? Literally the only thing we talk about for this book is worrying over which character will do. King tried to market it about the mental health of heroes, yet DC is marketing it the complete opposite.

For as much as us fans complain, the cheap gimmicks do tend to work, so I imagine it will. In fact if I were a betting man and there was a conceivable way to find out, I'd bet marketing the deaths would end up working better than marketing the mental health aspect.

When it comes to replacements of "iconic" heroes, Wally was really the only character that had successfully replaced his predecessor without running out of steam in a few years. The fact that he had been there almost from the start had a lot to do with it, since he wasn't a character that was specifically created to replace another character, he was his long-time sidekick and protege. That's why there's no better example of a successful legacy character than Wally West. The same way if DC ever got serious about "permanently" offing Bruce, Dick would've been the only guy fans would've accepted as the new "permanent" Batman.

As for the others, DC struggled what to do with Kyle less than a decade after his creation and Connor lasted even less than that. Now, Jaime is a better example but Blue Beetle is hardly on a GL/Flash/GA level of popularity, not to mention DC never invested in Ted the way they did in Hal, Barry and Oliver for so many years, so him being replaced wouldn't have generated the same level of outrage. There was still outrage, but rather due to the way DC chose to kill Ted off, not so much for replacing him in general.

All things I was thinking and couldn't articulate it as well. I agree.

[married guy]

Not the greatest example for me and some other fans out there.

John being ignored by the DC Editors (because John as a Guardian who was mentally connected with the rest of the Guardians and never could have slept through any cosmic event and could have easily stopped Hal and saved the GLC would have ruined the story they were telling) during ET, having his Guardianhood stripped of him, being demoted to a Darkstar, and then being crippled/left wheelchair bound so he could have a small supporting role giving Kyle advice every once in a while was definitely not "having our cake and eating it too" as most John fans would tell you.

Thank goodness Bruce Timm came along and the JL/U cartoon forced DC to correct that mistake or Johns would have had to bring him back in GL: Rebirth like he did with Guy and Sinestro as well (poor Guy, first being stripped of his ring like Alan Scott eventually was, being turned into the secret "alien love child of Metamorpho and the Ultimate Warrior", having his book cancelled and ending up in and out of limbo for years, dying in OWAW, ending up in Hell... no wonder he drinks )

I actually enjoyed John as the leader of the Darkstars!
Yes, it blew when they put him in the chair, but it didn't last particularly long, and I LIKED him playing the mentor to Kyle.
The architect and the artist worked well together.
Don't forget he was also the GL of the Justice League for a while there too.
Where they DID drop the ball was when John took over the monthly title from Kyle. That was a let down.