“Heroes in Crisis” Limited Series by Tom King & Clay Mann to Start in September

[ChrisG]

He gave a pretty long statement when Barry came back about his love for Wally and how he hoped DC wouldn't just sandbag him for Barry.

honestly would it make a difference if he said something? whats done is done. Today Dc hit a new low, they will never learn. The answer is don't buy their stuff

[kingaliencracker]

honestly would it make a difference if he said something? whats done is done. Today Dc hit a new low, they will never learn. The answer is don't buy their stuff

Yes, because Mark Waid to me is THE definitive Flash writer perhaps of all-time, and I value his opinion on the matter. Even if it doesn't change anything, it would be nice to see him stick up for Wally.

[ChrisG]

Yes, because Mark Waid to me is THE definitive Flash writer perhaps of all-time, and I value his opinion on the matter. Even if it doesn't change anything, it would be nice to see him stick up for Wally.

understand your point, but whatever DC doesn't deserve us

[HandofPrometheus]

So much like Identity Crisis, this is going to get ignored eventually because nobody really likes it, correct? I mean Ralph and Sue are back...

Ralph and Sue are indeed back but they still have no presence in the DCU. IC did its damage.

[ShinySephiroth]

No he has the memories of the previous wally pre flashpoint this wally was erased from history in the new 52 and recently came back because of speedforce hijinks
I mean he is physically much younger again this isn't hard
reminds me of obito from naruto having this perfect image of the rin he knew from childhood well into his adulthood.

What was revealed in the Rebirth retcon was that New 52 is the same universe as pre-Flashpoint all along. Manhattan manipulated everyone's memories. With this retcon, it made it so that Rebirth wasn't technically a continuity reboot. That decision made things messy for Superman, since they were already in the midst of bringing back pre-Flashpoint Clark & Lois with Jon in tow (not to mention Parallax meeting Hal, and the hint that CoIE Kara was running around doing stuff that I can only suspect was leading toward her being DC's Spider Gwen or Ranger Slayer, but that's a different topic).

The continuity finally got rebooted with Superman Reborn, revealing Manhattan split Supes from the very beginning of New 52.

Anyway, long story short is everyone we see is the same person they were pre-Flashpoint but with wonky time manipulation by Dr. Manhattan.

[ShinySephiroth]

No.

If Wally was simply dead that could be solved with a classic resurrection a couple of years after.

What happened here was character destruction and it will require A LOT MORE than that.

Like saying he was possessed by some being all along and none of that was really him?

Hmmm... why does all of this sound so familiar...?

[ShinySephiroth]

Please Dr. Manhattan, tinker again, erase this. Why oh' why, did King & Didio have to do this. With this' it's just like they have took a massive dump on 'Rebirth.' I'm sorry but how can any reader/reviews accept this, never mind scoring it ten. It's just an awful finger up at fans who have loved and followed the DC legacy for years. Absolutely shocked, it has need done. Sad day. Didio, you have made and done some marvellous things, but also a lot of bad mistakes (despite advice to the contrary) but this! I don't think Johns will bail you out a second time.

Johns to Didio:
https://youtu.be/OsteTjsOELc

[j9ac9k]

Like saying he was possessed by some being all along and none of that was really him?

Hmmm... why does all of this sound so familiar...?

What? It's not like a DC hero has ever experienced a great loss, hung out with a recreation of what he'd lost (including a fake family member) went nuts, killed a bunch of colleagues, including one of his closest friends, then time travelled in some misguided attempt to make things right....

[ShinySephiroth]

What? It's not like a DC hero has ever experienced a great loss, hung out with a recreation of what he'd lost (including a fake family member) went nuts, killed a bunch of colleagues, including one of his closest friends, then time travelled in some misguided attempt to make things right....

Yeah, you're right. I must be crazy...

Anyway, what time is it where you are? It is just past twilight for me...

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Jesus. Did DC not learn their lesson with Emerald Twilight?!?! This is beyond unnecessary to the point where it was just sad. I will not be buying the next issue unless this is 100% undone.

[CrimsonEchidna]

So kind of as an outsider looking in perspective; I fell off of DC a while back but ended up following this series because I heard all the controversy surrounding it. Based on reception I'd say this is the perfect litmus test of how important it is to have the "good will" of the fans if you're going to do a grand deconstruction story of a character.

Like, in a bubble I think Heroes in Crisis is an interesting story but I can ignore all the context around it. So this big existential crisis that Wally is going through gets judged alongside the way the character has also been portrayed for the better part of the past decade since Barry was revived. I think that's the point that people who are quick to do the hand-wave defense "Oh, you just hate challenging stories" are missing. If I could actually trust that DC to have long term plans for the character it'd be one thing, but with Wally the pattern has been they throw the occasional bone to placate his fans before immediately going back to minimizing him and putting him through the ringer.

[Lee Stone]

Today's lesson:

There's always a cost for doing the right thing or following your dream.
Sometimes it's your family getting murdered, or your wife getting raped by a C-list villain...
Sometimes you just go boom and kill a bunch of other heroes.

Solution: Don't do the right thing, and avoid your dreams.
Everyone will be happier.

[Frontier]

I still remember on the old comicbloc forums, Johns promising that Flash Rebirth was not the end of Wally and Barry coming back would be better for him, that he'd still continue to kick ass.

What a load of bullshit that and literally every other public sentiment from DC about Wally has been. I'm sure it wasn't Johns' intent, but when everyone reading the comic saw it coming he's a fool for thinking anything else but stuff like this was going to happen.

The impression I read was that Johns had (or was given) much more different expectations for how the Flash books were going to shape up post-Rebirth then what actually happened come the reboot.

Although that probably should have told him something as far as how DC editorial would handle Wally and the mythos.

So kind of as an outsider looking in perspective; I fell off of DC a while back but ended up following this series because I heard all the controversy surrounding it. Based on reception I'd say this is the perfect litmus test of how important it is to have the "good will" of the fans if you're going to do a grand deconstruction story of a character.

Like, in a bubble I think Heroes in Crisis is an interesting story but I can ignore all the context around it. So this big existential crisis that Wally is going through gets judged alongside the way the character has also been portrayed for the better part of the past decade since Barry was revived. I think that's the point that people who are quick to do the hand-wave defense "Oh, you just hate challenging stories" are missing. If I could actually trust that DC to have long term plans for the character it'd be one thing, but with Wally the pattern has been they throw the occasional bone to placate his fans before immediately going back to minimizing him and putting him through the ringer.

Especially when you look at DC's track record, where it seems more likely DC would be trying to kill off and completely discredit and do away with Wally then really try and make him a more "interesting" or "viable" character.

[CaptCleghorn]

I will state that I liked the first half of the book. Wally's feeling at a life that had been erased from history and a wife that never knew him and two kids that never were is not a circumstance many people experience. I lked his feelings and dialogue. But the mechanics and plot of the second half were terrible.

Now I'm no time traveler, but instead of getting a corpse of mine from five days in the future, I'd go back in time and get my corpse from the past. I live and if i don't well, everyone else does and my murder goes unsolved. Another horrible exhibition of powers heroes have no clue about.

And this was a quick issue. Full of big panels which were obviously set up to give Wally's confession a certain importance. Given its importance to the story, I get it. But with Booster and Harley running around for the previous seven issues making minimal progress, this is going to be a stuffed final issue. Maybe it'll help the story.

The cover was gorgeous, though. Mood and color were powerful.

[theoneandonly]

Wally's accidental discharge of speed force/lightning would mean that everyone exposed to the discharge should have been either disintegrated due to the excessive kinetic energy or electrocuted if it was speed force lightning which would mean ruling out booster and Harley especially as suspects completely whereas nothing of the sort is shown which goes to indicate what a dumb storyline it is. it also doesn't flatter Bruce's and Barry's forensic skills if they couldn't deduce such a blatant cause of the death. Sad day for wally. I think that he can officially appropriate Barry's dialogue from the trial of flash when he said that in the last few days he has undergone through a hell no superhero on earth has ever gone through.