"It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner
"In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West
"One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics
The reason I associate with dark with the story is what DC has said about the story while promoting it.
Wanting it to be Identity Crisis 2.0 which ruined the satellite era of the JL.
Promoting a story with death, who is a murder?, etc.
I love the mental health idea because its a great concept and I'm hopeful but I feel that the idea of a hero is going to be dragged through the mud and not have a positive message about being one. I've always thought of DC as the heroes we aspire to be while Marvel heroes deal with more "real" problems and are more relatable. A chance to see how these icons really feel can be a wondrous and inspiring thing but like I said I'm a little worried about how this message gets through.
"It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner
"In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West
"One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics
Compared to Donna and Garth or Wally in the last decade I'd say he's done pretty well as far as being consistently shown in stories or team books.
Obviously his issues with addiction is a major part of Roy's character, but usually when written right it's about him persevering and moving on from it. Addiction is a lifelong struggle.
I think there's been enough good in his life and enough he's been able to achieve as a character to say he's a success story, especially compared to his mentor.Roy’s not really a success story. He’s a tragic character, and he doesn’t really have a lot going for him right now. Him dying while trying to get help would just make his tragic story all that more tragic.
DC ruined a lot of that, but they've always seemed to have it out for Roy.
I don't think even DC is bad enough to where they're killing off major named characters practically every month .
Well, if they were using original characters, I would imagine the point would be to get audiences invested in them, especially since they allow for more freedom for the writers then with the A-list characters.
edited post.
I remember that too though I mostly avoid the Batman forum because of crusaders against King's run take all the fun out of the book I love the best lately. I agree that those negative reactions to I Am Suicide (the ones along the lines you mentioned - calling a child "weak" for considering suicide after his parents were gunned down) were appalling.
Of course King's Batman run is controversial. Most intrepid art is. I keep seeing people worrying that Heroes in Crisis will be "the debacle" that Identity Crisis was. But I'm seeing that from the ones that hate King's Batman and (obviously) hated ID Crisis. I freaking LOVED Identity Crisis. Not because it was dark, but because it was cathartic and moving and thrilling (IMO - obviously).
So if that's what we're worried about... That Heroes in Crisis might be kin to King's Batman (oh no!) or Identity Crisis (no, no!) only makes me more excited about it. To this reader, King's Batman and Meltzer's ID Crisis have been two of the most sensitively told stories about our heroes of all time. Maybe they've been THE most of all time, IMO.
And I've never read any comic series more times than I have Identity Crisis though I re-read King's Batman a lot as well. I haven't been so excited about an upcoming series maybe ever.
To be fair, there are many people who enjoy King's Batman run and absolutely hated IDENTITY CRISIS. I'm one of them...I think what King's doing is the best Batman we've seen in forever, certainly better than the thumb-twiddling of the "classic" Snyder run. And I consider IDENTITY CRISIS to be the worst thing that DC has ever done, an absolute garbage fire of a book. Not because of the murder...it's a murder mystery, so you need a victim...but the elements that have now been revealed to have been forced in by DC editorial to make the book even darker. Elements that had no real bearing on the mystery, which could've been told just the same without the added veneer of grimdark to make it "kewl."
All that said, I'm looking forward to HEROES IN CRISIS, because King is killing it on Batman and Mister Miracle and because I have faith he can do a murder mystery without throwing in those extra elements that made IDENTITY CRISIS such a toxic disgrace.
That’s a low bar. Point is though, when you don’t get get many stories about you, those 2-3 times is quite relevant. I mean Rise of Arsenal, as long ago as it was, was his last solo push. Titans was his last series. This hardly illustrates him persevering and moving on from his addiction.
And you say he’s a success story, but how exactly is he a success story. Especially compared to his mentor.
Last edited by Godlike13; 08-19-2018 at 03:45 PM.
I don't think it's as low a bar. Combined with media pushes I'd say Roy has had it pretty solid over the years, and he doesn't have Wally's issue of writers needing to re-emphasize Barry as the definitive flash.
I would say Rise of Arsenal and the last Titans book are far from the be-all end-all of Roy Harper.
He was shown to be a better dad then Ollie was, and I think he was much more open about his mistakes and fixing them then Ollie.And you say he’s a success story, but how exactly is he a success story. Especially compared to his mentor.
I think that's plenty fair. Every response to any art is. (I mean, as long as you're actually experiencing the art before criticizing it and not criticizing based on recaps or news stories.) I'm just glad you're enjoying King's Batman as much as I am. It's my favorite run on Batman too and Batman has been my top hero forever and I've read every run. I love a lot of them but I love King's best. I'm sorry you didn't dig Identity Crisis but I'm glad you're digging Batman.
And I'm extra glad to read a post from someone else that's actually looking forward to Heroes in Crisis. I think it will be great because it's by Tom King and Clay Mann just as I loved ID Crisis for Meltzer and Rags. This whole promo "One of these characters is going to DIE!!!!!" isn't King's style. It's got Didio's fingerprints all over it. He loves to promote with deaths and controversy.
That is a low bar. Being used more then Donna, Garth, or Wally right now isn’t saying much. And while Wally might have the Barry problem right now, and might be at a low, Roy’s has still never had the highs Wally has had. Not even close. Roy doesn’t need Wally’s issue, he has plenty of his own. Hell even now compared to Wally it’s not like the Titans was ever proclaiming the return of Roy Harper as it’s marketing ploy or anything. So I’m sorry, but just being around isn’t that impressive. And last time I checked Roy was off in limbo. So I don’t see how well he actually is fairing himself right now.
And while Rise of Arsenal and the last Titans book might not be the be all, end all there isn’t exactly much else either.
Doesn’t mean he’s done or accomplished more then Ollie. As a dad that all went up in flames, and turned out rather tragic too, and just because he’s open about his mistakes doesn’t mean he actually gets around to fixing them or truly redeems himself from them. Roy is still often looked at and is readily portrayed as the resident screw up.
Last edited by Godlike13; 08-19-2018 at 08:53 PM.
Why would they though? It's not like he was dead or vanished out-of-continuity like Wally did.
Besides, that will probably be the title of the inevitable storyline that brings him back to life .
He's made appearances in Green Arrow and Red Hood and the Outlaws, although some of that might be setting up his appearance in Heroes in Crisis.
There are other Titans runs, Outsiders, Green Arrow runs with Roy in them as well.And while Rise of Arsenal and the last Titans book might not be the be all, end all there isn’t exactly much else either.
Not abandoning or pretending your kid didn't exist in the first place is a pretty big accomplishment compared to what Ollie did to Connor.Doesn’t mean he’s done or accomplished more then Ollie. As a dad that all went up in flames, and turned out rather tragic too, and just because he’s open about his mistakes doesn’t mean he actually gets around to fixing them or truly redeems himself from them. Roy is still often looked at and is readily portrayed as the resident screw up.
I think he's looked at more for having issues and working on them then as someone who's a screw-up. And he has fixed and redeem his issues in the past, even if DC tries to dredge them up again every now and then for drama, but that happens with every character.