Superman In "Heroes In Crisis" By Tom King and Clay Mann

[Sacred Knight]

I have to believe, if true, that even that will end up as some sort of illusion. A false memory or fake footage from Sanctuary, depending on how this information is revealed. Because its just too stupid to be real.

[Robanker]

Honestly that's a very Tom King thing to do. He doesn't care if it makes sense, he just wants to tell his story. HiC has that all over and it's not the first time nothing makes sense to tell his story (Catwoman's Flash hat trick, anyone?)

I can only hope this book bombs and he's forced to rethink how he plays in a shared universe with an 80 year history of stories and fans, but it seems successful so who knows?

[HeroVladimir93]

Honestly that's a very Tom King thing to do. He doesn't care if it makes sense, he just wants to tell his story. HiC has that all over and it's not the first time nothing makes sense to tell his story (Catwoman's Flash hat trick, anyone?)

I can only hope this book bombs and he's forced to rethink how he plays in a shared universe with an 80 year history of stories and fans, but it seems successful so who knows?

It's very depressing to think that fans want a particular book to fail just to teach the company's higher-ups a lesson about treating the DC Universe and its characters. I admit I'm not that upset with some of the deaths in the book, maybe because I wasn't that emotionally invested in those characters, but that's just my opinion and if fans are upset by those deaths, they aren't upset for feeling that way. I can only hope Heroes in Crisis has a meaningful impact in the Superman saga, since Superman appears to be a major player here.

[Robanker]

It's very depressing to think that fans want a particular book to fail just to teach the company's higher-ups a lesson about treating the DC Universe and its characters. I admit I'm not that upset with some of the deaths in the book, maybe because I wasn't that emotionally invested in those characters, but that's just my opinion and if fans are upset by those deaths, they aren't upset for feeling that way. I can only hope Heroes in Crisis has a meaningful impact in the Superman saga, since Superman appears to be a major player here.

The thing is, I don't trust DC editorial, but Tom King seems like someone who will listen to criticism (his portrayal of Wonder Woman back in her guest spot) and I do think he has potential as a writer. He's done some wonderful work, but when he gets lofty ideas in his head, he just rolls with them and damn the casualties. It's a particularly bad thing to do in a shared universe when you force everyone around you to pick up the pieces. It reminds of Cry for Justice where the entire Green Arrow line was destroyed, sure, but James Robinson was able to just throw in a comment about how Hal totally banged Huntress and some other, which greatly bothered Gail Simone, who was the one in charge of said character. She had to include a panel in her book to debunk the concept. She also needed to have Black Canary say some throwaway line of "I haven't been myself lately" with respect to just dumping Ollie over a prison phone line when they were married. Nobody consulted her with the two characters she was in control of. Tom had Harley Quinn outright stomp the Trinity in two pages and then had Superman shill for her. It's piss-poor writing and undermines their three biggest characters to push Hot Topic's darling Quinn.

I want HiC to fail, but only because I hate what it means for superhero comics in general-- more grimdark navel-gazing and cheap deaths for shock value. It's the exact thing that leads to turn-and-burn readership and will kill the industry. It needs to go.

[HeroVladimir93]

The thing is, I don't trust DC editorial, but Tom King seems like someone who will listen to criticism (his portrayal of Wonder Woman back in her guest spot) and I do think he has potential as a writer. He's done some wonderful work, but when he gets lofty ideas in his head, he just rolls with them and damn the casualties. It's a particularly bad thing to do in a shared universe when you force everyone around you to pick up the pieces. It reminds of Cry for Justice where the entire Green Arrow line was destroyed, sure, but James Robinson was able to just throw in a comment about how Hal totally banged Huntress and some other, which greatly bothered Gail Simone, who was the one in charge of said character. She had to include a panel in her book to debunk the concept. She also needed to have Black Canary say some throwaway line of "I haven't been myself lately" with respect to just dumping Ollie over a prison phone line when they were married. Nobody consulted her with the two characters she was in control of. Tom had Harley Quinn outright stomp the Trinity in two pages and then had Superman shill for her. It's piss-poor writing and undermines their three biggest characters to push Hot Topic's darling Quinn.

I want HiC to fail, but only because I hate what it means for superhero comics in general-- more grimdark navel-gazing and cheap deaths for shock value. It's the exact thing that leads to turn-and-burn readership and will kill the industry. It needs to go.

Well, that's your opinion and I respect it. I too have problems with Harley outsmarting the Trinity, it comes off as contrived and reeks of plot convenience. I know it helps move the story along but surely there must have been a better way. Some fans, right or wrong, have no desire to see their favorite character brought down even one peg just to propel another character forward. I understand that King wants to take the characters out of their comfort zone, even if I disagree with some of his choices. I disagree with his choice to cancel Bruce and Selina's wedding and I'm not that upset by some of the deaths in Heroes in Crisis because, like I said before, those characters weren't among my favorites. I would be upset too if King disrespected Superman in some way. And yes, you do have a point in the writers at DC keeping communications with each other and there have been cases of a writer having to modify his plans for a character because another writer did something unexpected with that character in a big event. I can only hope Heroes in Crisis helps the DC Universe evolve instead of diminishing it.

[Robanker]

Well, that's your opinion and I respect it. I too have problems with Harley outsmarting the Trinity, it comes off as contrived and reeks of plot convenience. I know it helps move the story along but surely there must have been a better way. Some fans, right or wrong, have no desire to see their favorite character brought down even one peg just to propel another character forward. I understand that King wants to take the characters out of their comfort zone, even if I disagree with some of his choices. I disagree with his choice to cancel Bruce and Selina's wedding and I'm not that upset by some of the deaths in Heroes in Crisis because, like I said before, those characters weren't among my favorites. I would be upset too if King disrespected Superman in some way. And yes, you do have a point in the writers at DC keeping communications with each other and there have been cases of a writer having to modify his plans for a character because another writer did something unexpected with that character in a big event. I can only hope Heroes in Crisis helps the DC Universe evolve instead of diminishing it.

I'm fine with characters I care about being taken down a peg, but I don't want to read something flat out insulting like Catwoman sweep kicking the three fastest people alive like it's no big deal. There's being taken down a peg and then there's being treated as a joke. Read a usual Justice League story. Outside some writers, like Morrison, most characters have to be dialed back to work in a team book. Superman himself is notorious for jobbing in the JLA. It's fine. Not awesome, but I get that he has to so the story can make any sense. I've enjoyed runs on team books where my favorites didn't get to shine.

It's having him get wrecked by Harley after she takes out Diana and Bruce without any assistance that I've taken issue with, and Tom King is guilty more of the latter than anything else. There's a clear difference.

In any case, HiC is saving me money so I'll thank King and Didio for that.

[DragonPiece]

BC claiming that Wally was killed by spoilers:

Harley and her mallet

end of spoilers

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/11...-how-spoilers/

Not sure how much of this reveal will rely on unreliable narrative or not.

the whole series is about who murdered these people, so I'm very doubtful King will give us a definitive answer in the 3rd issue. Especially that one since Ivy was killed with the rest of the heroes in sanctuary, so it doesn't make sense SPOILER would be the killer.

[Sacred Knight]

I'm going with revealed Sanctuary footage that will later be revealed to be unreliable. Not a defense, I don't particularly like the story as it is enough to want to defend it--this entire set-up has been very poorly built up and thus this story completely unearned in my mind--but its where I think its leading nonetheless.

[Arsenal]

the whole series is about who murdered these people, so I'm very doubtful King will give us a definitive answer in the 3rd issue. Especially that one since Ivy was killed with the rest of the heroes in sanctuary, so it doesn't make sense SPOILER would be the killer.

Pretty much this. I really doubt that's how Wally got killed.

[Kon93]

I'll take a karl kesel and Peter David over a Tom king and Scott snyder anyday,that's just my opinion.

If it wasn't for the great art and the fact that this story is supposed to mean something,I wouldn't b reading it,but I am.

[Vordan]

The spoiler sounds dumb but I agree with Sacred in that it’s most likely a fake out. Remember DC is pushing spoilers:

HQ

end of spoilers pretty hard. Plus she’s got a movie coming up. No way are they turning her back into a murderer now. They’ve committed to this antihero crap with her.

This event is so damn BORING. King is trying to give us this deep insight but it’s like he just read what Twitter thinks of the characters and uses that as who they are. It all feels so shallow and pedantic. Plus we all know most of them will get resurrected so it’s hard to care.

[Miles To Go]

Just read the issue...and yeah, this is a car wreck calibre book.

spoilers:

The whole thing is a flashback to Wally, Lagoon Boy and Booster coping with their day at Sanctuary. There's a robot double of Booster, Wally is busy playing with his family in some kind of simulation, and Lagoon Boy is constantly getting shot at with laser beams. He eventually finds a bunch of heroes dead and is impaled through the chest by a spear. Wally finds Roy dead outside the cabin and Harley indeed smacks him on the head with a mallet and kills him. Booster's reaction to all this death is "this is my first day"

end of spoilers

[HeroVladimir93]

Just read the issue...and yeah, this is a car wreck calibre book.

spoilers:

The whole thing is a flashback to Wally, Lagoon Boy and Booster coping with their day at Sanctuary. There's a robot double of Booster, Wally is busy playing with his family in some kind of simulation, and Lagoon Boy is constantly getting shot at with laser beams. He eventually finds a bunch of heroes dead and is impaled through the chest by a spear. Wally finds Roy dead outside the cabin and Harley indeed smacks him on the head with a mallet and kills him. Booster's reaction to all this death is "this is my first day"

end of spoilers

I don't mean to come off as a jerk here, but what exactly does this have to do with Superman himself? I thought this thread was meant to discuss Superman's role in this story, but it seems that, for the most part, people just use it to talk about the storyline as a whole.

[Sacred Knight]

It thread drifts in the spaces in which there isn't much Superman stuff to talk about. It hasn't been closed or anything so I've been operating on the assumption that doing that is okay.

[Miles To Go]

It also heavily involves Booster, who's always been a recurring player in Superman stories.