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  1. #46
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    If anyone does want to go into more detail about what they like about Hawkman's personality, things that have nothing to do with superheroing, I'm not snarking, I really am all ears.
    I enjoy Hawkman's personality because I find it to be very multi-faceted and interesting.

    He has an inherent nobility in him that colors his heroism and desire to do good but also an innate savage aspect of himself that clashes with that on a constant basis.

    He can be charming, short-tempered, honorable, vicious, regal, a beast, caring, and standoffish all in equal measure, and the same can be said for Hawkgirl.

    I also find how his long-life colors his perspective on the world and humanity to be really interesting.

    I've never really been exposed to him as a "Short-Tempered Republican" and I think his "Creepy Stalker" trait was really only an issue in one arc of JSA (and was dealt with shortly after).
    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    his awful behavior continued in the form of pouting and ignoring her, even during missions, upset over the fact that he didn't get a woman he felt entitled too. JSACarter was a PIG.
    I don't remember that.

    If it's from the issues I'm thinking of, he was acting that way because of a lot of personal issues going on in the Hawkman book that had nothing to do with Kendra. He was treating the entire JSA like that around then.

    I never got the sense that Carter felt "entitled" to anything. I remember him being depressed at the thought that he couldn't be reunited with Shiera like he'd hoped, but he still respected Kendra even if he had difficulty adjusting to the reincarnation cycle being different this time around.
    *I honestly find the Hawkman mythos as a whole disturbing. Especially as demonstrated with Kendra, the idea of being destined to hook up with someone without any free will in the matter is horrifying and just in general the idea of free will not mattering and something being destined to happen is a story element I almost always hate.
    I think if anything Kendra proves that free will can enter into it to some degree because she fell in love with him on her own terms and not immediately.

  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Great post Frontier. That clash between nobility and savagery is a really interesting and unique aspect of his personality.

  3. #48
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    If anyone does want to go into more detail about what they like about Hawkman's personality, things that have nothing to do with superheroing, I'm not snarking, I really am all ears.
    Well, I'm far from an expert on the character (I'm a far bigger fan of Shayera and Kendra), but this is what I got.

    As Deniz said (well put, btw), Hawkman is a handful of basic personality traits wrapped around the "tragic lovers" narrative and/or his multiple lives, all colored in pulp sensibilities. Carter's sort of a non-entity; his existence as a well rounded, layered character is dependent on outside factors. Take away Lois Lane and Superman is still his own character. He still has his own motivations, hobbies, quirks, contradictions, etc. Take Hawkgirl away from Carter, and he loses massive parts of who he is. They really are "two characters for the price of one" (as someone perfectly said it) but that means one loses nuance without the other. Carter's a co-dependent character. So is Kendra. A huge chunk of her character is "I refuse to accept this destiny." Take that away, and you lose a huge chunk of her character development and direction. Her rebellious, seeking-freedom personality traits are as tied to Carter as his motivations are to her.

    And if you're using the reincarnation thing, then Carter's whoever he remembers being, framed by those few consistent and broad constants. Which means he can basically be anybody the writer wants him to be.

    He's short tempered and loves to fight but is skilled at deduction. He struggles to sit still, but has vast resources culled from either his race's advanced technology or investments made during past lives, so he thinks in the long-game. He's knowledgeable and experienced and has a harsh sense of old world justice. Classically macho and full of bravado, with an old school sense of honor. Has almost no damn limits when it comes to Hawkgirl, what he'd do for her, how highly he regards her, how much he loves her. Which is yeah, stalker-ish, but equalized by the fact that Hawkgirl is the exact same way.

    If you want to know what kind of movies he likes, or what kind of music, his favorite beer, I couldn't tell you. But he speaks a multitude of languages. Doesn't like to wear shirts. With Thanagar, or at least Hawkworld, he came from a world that was definitely a little bit evil; he's desensitized to violence and pain and isn't terribly sympathetic (except for Hawkgirl). Generally treated as a conservative, but I think by today's standards he's probably closer to a moderate libertarian than what the GOP has become. Politically he's Ron Swanson.
    Last edited by Ascended; 06-14-2018 at 07:19 PM.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

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  4. #49
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    If you want to know what kind of movies he likes, or what kind of music, his favorite beer, I couldn't tell you. But he speaks a multitude of languages. Doesn't like to wear shirts. With Thanagar, or at least Hawkworld, he came from a world that was definitely a little bit evil; he's desensitized to violence and pain and isn't terribly sympathetic (except for Hawkgirl). Generally treated as a conservative, but I think by today's standards he's probably closer to a moderate libertarian than what the GOP has become. Politically he's Ron Swanson.
    I think it's pretty reasonable to assume Carter's a fan of anything that's "classic" when it comes to his entertainment .

    I also think he probably has pretty refined tastes when it comes to his alcohol.

  5. #50
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think it's pretty reasonable to assume Carter's a fan of anything that's "classic" when it comes to his entertainment .
    I'd imagine so, yeah. But I don't know for a fact, that's just an assumption on my part.

    I also think he probably has pretty refined tastes when it comes to his alcohol.
    I'd like to think of Carter as a scotch man, but that's just me projecting my own preferences.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member Jekyll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think if anything Kendra proves that free will can enter into it to some degree because she fell in love with him on her own terms and not immediately.
    Yes and this issue was handled much better in Johns solo Hawkman book rather than the JSA book.

    Also, the only times I remember him being labeled as “republican” is anytime he is paired with Oliver Queen in a Green Arrow book and the writer is purposefully ( and often cringe worthy) trying to play them off one another. As one of the other posters pointed out he definitely has a more libertarian vibe to him ( yet another reason that this libertarian likes the character )
    Last edited by Jekyll; 06-14-2018 at 07:27 PM.
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post

    I think if anything Kendra proves that free will can enter into it to some degree because she fell in love with him on her own terms and not immediately.
    Fair point. However I've never read the Hawkman title so I can't say whether or not I believe that she would fall in love with him on her own terms and even if she did, that sorta just makes Blackest Night even worse for me. Almost like destiny saying, "You didn't play by the rules? Begone!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    So is Kendra.
    Thank you, to both you and everyone else whose replied, for elaborating what you see in him. These things you're all mentioning aren't exactly traits that appeal to me, but I can definitely see why others like them.

    However, I have to disagree here. Carter didn't enter the JSA series until over 20 issues into it and Kendra was already a very likable, fleshed out character with a compelling storyline long before then. If anything, I think Carter is detrimental to her as once he entered the picture, most of her page time was centered around him and it was increasingly frustrating.

  8. #53
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    Fair point. However I've never read the Hawkman title so I can't say whether or not I believe that she would fall in love with him on her own terms and even if she did, that sorta just makes Blackest Night even worse for me. Almost like destiny saying, "You didn't play by the rules? Begone!"
    Well, then they got brought back at the end (although Kendra was Shiera again), but then Shiera was taken away at the end of Brightest Day...

    Suffice it to say, in one form or another, destiny is not kind to the Hawks .
    However, I have to disagree here. Carter didn't enter the JSA series until over 20 issues into it and Kendra was already a very likable, fleshed out character with a compelling storyline long before then. If anything, I think Carter is detrimental to her as once he entered the picture, most of her page time was centered around him and it was increasingly frustrating.
    Maybe it's just because The Return of Hawkman was one of the first JSA trades I picked up but I think the series did a good job of developing an interesting dynamic between Carter and Kendra that developed into the Hawkman book.

    But I admit I'm probably biased because I enjoy the Hawks as partners/lovers.

  9. #54
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    He has one of the best and iconic costumes in comics, The mythology of his character, the Indiana Jones/ adventure aspect of his character, and honestly not to sound corny but He and Hawkgirl have one of the greatest love stories ever. These two souls find their way back to one another over a span on lifetimes and there is just something great about that. If Superman inspires hope then I’d say Hawkman and Hawkgirl inspire true love or at least the idea of it and that alone is a great story. Hawkman #1 has rekindled my love for the character. He wasn’t savage, he was Nobel, he was adventurous, rugged, friendly, and driven. I hope this new series last a long time

  10. #55
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    When it comes to the supernatural, we probably shouldn't credit the writers with believing any of this junk for real--yet I seem to always go down that path. So the whole thing with Kendra where she apparently commited suicide but Chay-Ara's soul entered her body, that had me wondering if Geoff Johns and David Goyer really believed this BS and how exactly did they think souls worked.

    I guess they did it just to allow a full-grown woman to be the reincarnation of the Egyptian priestess, without the requisite period of time between the death of Shiera and the birth of Kendra. But I found the origin vaguely off-putting. Plus--as far as I remember--they never got too deep into why Kendra committed suicide, and since her personality was the same, how did that work? If she had someone else's soul, you'd think she would be a completely different person and not even recognize herself as Kendra.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    As Deniz said (well put, btw), Hawkman is a handful of basic personality traits wrapped around the "tragic lovers" narrative and/or his multiple lives, all colored in pulp sensibilities. Carter's sort of a non-entity; his existence as a well rounded, layered character is dependent on outside factors. Take away Lois Lane and Superman is still his own character. He still has his own motivations, hobbies, quirks, contradictions, etc. Take Hawkgirl away from Carter, and he loses massive parts of who he is.
    I disagree. Take away Hawkgirl/woman and Hawkman is still an archeologist, whose interest in the past and the occult still draws him into many a mystery. Whether informed by past life memories, or the Absorbascom, he is still a hero with unique perspectives on the world around him. Whether motivated by an ancient royal nobless oblige, or a police officer's training, he still views civilization and people as worth defending.

    Hawkgirl/woman's absence doesn't make him less, but it denies him being something more: part of a loving, stable relationship. I just would like to see the "more" restored to him.

  12. #57
    Astonishing Member WallyWestFlash's Avatar
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    Where to start?

    His origin is very cool and unique. Being an Egyptian prince that has been reincarnated.
    That he uses old weapons since he is an old soul, literally. lol. Which is a cool aspect that is connected to his origin and just cool looking by itself. I love that mace.

    Which also ties in with his warrior attitude which is probably one of my favorite things about him. I see some people on here are claiming that he has no personality which is very untrue. Carter is from a much more war like and brutal time so he has that warrior perspective as well as more practical approach which I love. Which is why he always butts head with the loud mouth Green Arrow. He is tough a hell and does not go down easily. He will fight until he's dead. Also a tough personality where he can be a little rough around the edges. He is a lot more violent when it comes to fighting the villains. Villains can be legit scared of him. The hawk is a predatory bird. There is a reason his new 52 series was called the savage Hawkman. I always picture Gereald Butler from 300 when I think of him. lol. I also would love Gerald Butler to play Carter in a movie.

    Another aspect I love, which is still very connected to all of the above, is the history and archaeologist aspect of Carter. He is from the past so he does have an interest in it and knowledge of it as well. He works in a museum and is very much like Indiana Jones and Lara Croft. My favorite stories are where he explores ancient tombs or the like and fights old magics. So he has a cool Indiana Jones genre. He can fight other types of villains but those are unique to him and are the most fun.

    Then there is the Thanager alien part. I like the Egyptian prince more, Carter over Kater, but still also like a lot. His personality is he is a cop so he believes in order and justice. As well as he is an alien from another planet so he has to hide who is, like Superman, and is sometimes caught between two worlds. You also have the alien technology, the famous Nth metal, that he brings with him so he has cool gadgets. Sometimes its stolen so you get cool villains like the Shadow thief.

    Also being an alien he has that Flash Gordon type of adventures where he goes into space and fights aliens from other planets. Similar to Adam Strange which is probably why they are put together so often.

    Then there is the look. That helmet is really cool and unique. Those wings are also very cool looking and magnificent looking. I like the bare chested look which ties into the ancient warrior look. I do admit the colors are a bit too flashy for me with the bright red green pants and red boots and trunks. I'm glad they took away the trunks. My favorite look is the Geoff Johns/Rags Morales from the 2003 series. They toned down the green of his pants. Gave him the big belt buckle and made his chest harness a lot bigger and brown. They also threw on a lot of gauntlets and pieces of armor and shields and spears and such. Which further plays up the warrior aspect.

    I also liked the military costume from Hawkworld where he had a gun. I though that was a pretty cool look and different. And it very much matched the character. Which I thought was a very good update of Katar Hol.

    Also Katar has Shayera who is his wife and work partner which I thought was cool and unique. you don't have a lot of that in comics. The reincarnated soulmates is ok which Johns brought in recently with Carter but I like the Katar and Shayera police partners more. Maybe because its been around a lot more. From the 60's into the 90's, while the destined lovers only started in the 2000's. But no, while the partnership aspect is a big part of Hawkman it does not MAKE Hawkman.

    So for me its the origin, the genre, the personality, the look, ect that makes the winged warrior appeal to me.
    Last edited by WallyWestFlash; 06-15-2018 at 08:33 AM.
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  13. #58
    Astonishing Member WallyWestFlash's Avatar
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    One of my favorite scenes.


    RCO009.jpg
    My name is Wally West. I"m the fastest man alive. I"m the Flash.

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  14. #59
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I enjoy Hawkman's personality because I find it to be very multi-faceted and interesting.

    He has an inherent nobility in him that colors his heroism and desire to do good but also an innate savage aspect of himself that clashes with that on a constant basis.

    He can be charming, short-tempered, honorable, vicious, regal, a beast, caring, and standoffish all in equal measure, and the same can be said for Hawkgirl.

    I also find how his long-life colors his perspective on the world and humanity to be really interesting.

    I've never really been exposed to him as a "Short-Tempered Republican" and I think his "Creepy Stalker" trait was really only an issue in one arc of JSA (and was dealt with shortly after).

    I don't remember that.

    If it's from the issues I'm thinking of, he was acting that way because of a lot of personal issues going on in the Hawkman book that had nothing to do with Kendra. He was treating the entire JSA like that around then.

    I never got the sense that Carter felt "entitled" to anything. I remember him being depressed at the thought that he couldn't be reunited with Shiera like he'd hoped, but he still respected Kendra even if he had difficulty adjusting to the reincarnation cycle being different this time around.

    I think if anything Kendra proves that free will can enter into it to some degree because she fell in love with him on her own terms and not immediately.
    Strangely enought your reasons to like Hawkman remind me a lot to Wolverine. Of course they had differences, but that dichotomy beetween savagery and nobility remind me a lot to Logan.

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member WallyWestFlash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I enjoy Hawkman's personality because I find it to be very multi-faceted and interesting.

    He has an inherent nobility in him that colors his heroism and desire to do good but also an innate savage aspect of himself that clashes with that on a constant basis.

    He can be charming, short-tempered, honorable, vicious, regal, a beast, caring, and standoffish all in equal measure, and the same can be said for Hawkgirl.

    I also find how his long-life colors his perspective on the world and humanity to be really interesting.
    Very well said.
    My name is Wally West. I"m the fastest man alive. I"m the Flash.

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