Wonder Woman 1984: Discussion, Set Leaks & Spoilers #WW84

[brettc1]

I saw Wonder Woman 1984 on HBO Max a few days ago. It wasn't a bad movie in my opinion.

However, there's something that's been bugging me: was it ever explained why Wonder Woman never flies in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice or Justice League despite figuring out how to do so decades earlier?

I also have a few questions about the Dreamstone:

1. It's my understanding the object takes away something from the user in exchange for granting the wish. Does this always happen in a "magical" manner, or does the direct result of a wish also count as "paying the price"? For example, would the guy who wished for his wife to drop dead later lose anything else besides his wife?

2. Does the scope of the wish correlate to what the Dreamstone takes in exchange? For example, would the guy who wished for coffee suffer other consequences down the line, besides simply burning his tongue?

3. How does the Dreamstone work with "consumable" wishes? If someone wishes to know winning lottery numbers and then renounces their wish, would they simply forget the numbers? Or would they retroactively lose the wealth they have obtained?

4. How likely is it that there are some people who didn't renounce their wish?

If someone made a wish while watching Max and then turned off their television, then Diana's message wouldn't get to them. It's also implied that Diana was only encouraging people to renounce their wish rather than forcing them to do so.
There are also people in the world who have nothing more to lose. Consider Batman, who suddenly lost both parents at a young age. Had he wished them back to life, then I imagine he would be extremely hard-pressed to renounce that wish.

Everyone Who made a wish renounced their wish.

The message is that wishes are basically lies. It’s rewriting the script of make reality how you WANT it to be, instead of accepting it for what it is. The lasso showed people that.

I’ve noticed people mentioning Antiope’s fairness comment. This Is basically the same. Fair is a human concept that the universe cares absolutely nothing about. Reality isn’t fair or unfair, it simply is. There’s a whole lot of dinosaurs who would tell you that is they could talk and weren’t extinct.

So when you make a wish, you force the universe to lie for your benefit. You are taking the objective truth of existence and replacing it with a falsehood that suits you better. Steve wonders what powers the dream stone. Hope? Love?

No, it’s lies. And the biggest lie is the one you tell yourself - that your desires are what is most important. Young Diana learned that. She thought she deserved to win so she could ignore the reality of the rules. But the truth is that the universe does not revolve around you, and you’re not more or less important than anyone else.

Well, unless you’re Batgod, obviously

PS GREAT call on the coffee that I didn’t pick up on before. Burning his tongue meant he got his wish but couldn’t enjoy it. Which seems the same for all the wishes. Like Antiope said, nothing good comes from lies.

[ixfd64]

It's my impression that Diana could also use to lasso to let someone see through lies as opposed to merely compelling them to tell the truth. I also just remembered that the signals were able to "touch" people on the ground. So someone doesn't need to be looking at a TV to get Diana's message.

But realistically... I can see someone not renouncing their wish even when they know it's a lie. It happens in real life all the time: people get addicted to drugs even when they're aware the hallucinations aren't real.

[brettc1]

It's my impression that Diana could also use to lasso to let someone see through lies as opposed to merely compelling them to tell the truth. I also just remembered that the signals were able to "touch" people on the ground. So someone doesn't need to be looking at a TV to get Diana's message.

But realistically... I can see someone not renouncing their wish even when they know it's a lie. It happens in real life all the time: people get addicted to drugs even when they're aware the hallucinations aren't real.

Realistically Superman would be Homelander.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I enjoyed the movie, I think Gadot and Pine are just too good. I’m surprised how sympathetic Maxwell Lord was. It reminded me of Superman 2. I really liked the scale! I saw a lot of nods to the Donner Superman films. The interlude with Steve and Diana in 4th of July reminded me of Lois and Superman on their first flight. (That must be a Butch Cassidy idea from the 70s)

[Punisher007]

Yeah Max was a lot more layered and had more dimension than I was expecting. He ended up being one of my favorite parts of the film.

[Frontier]

This isn't a bombastic or action-packed Superhero movie that people might be used to, and it may not have the concise and clear storytelling of the first film, but I felt this was overall a strong and thematically appropriate followup to the first Wonder Woman film and most definitely true to the heart of the character.

I was really glad they were able to fit the Contest into the beginning of this movie, because it's probably the biggest part of Diana's origin that they skipped in the first movie, and it looked as epic as it deserves. Shame Diana didn't win, but it set up the lesson of not taking shortcuts and cheating to achieve what you want, as told by both of Diana's moms Antiope and Hippolyta.

This definitely feels like a throwback movie in various ways. You can definitely see the Richard Donner Superman influences in terms of the romance and Diana's heroic exploits at the beginning as she saves the day and whisks off like Superman. They totally missed the perfect "Wonder Woman" namedrop during that news report, but I guess they want the first utterance on-film to be more special.

So Diana saved the bride, but did she stop the shoplifters who knocked her over?

I never expected Kristen Wiig as Cheetah, let alone playing the prominent antagonist of a Superhero movie, but I have to say she exceeded my expectations. She really captured the awkward, clumsy, yet heartfelt nature of Barbara Minerva from the start of the movie and how that contrast builds into her budding friendship with Diana, but she also just as effortlessly delivers on Barbara as she develops into Cheetah, a woman who embraces the excess of her femininity as she envies Diana/Wonder Woman and someone who you can understand why she would oppose the heroes even at the cost of her own humanity. She truly is Diana's rival, and not just because a wish gave her powers to match, and that all built into their climactic fight at the end where she becomes Cheetah. All things considered (especially with Catz as a comparison), I thought Cheetah looked pretty solid in the visuals department.

I feel like this movie understood the humanity of the original Max Lord in the comics, a man who ultimately meant well even if he was a bit of a liar and manipulator, rather than the more villainous modern version who first became a foe for Wonder Woman. In doing so I felt the movie did a good job of crafting a charismatic yet relatable antagonist, and one who you partially want to see Diana redeem as she does at the end instead of a normal Superhero/Supervillain face-off. Pedro Pascal did a fantastic job of playing both Max Lord the larger-than-life persona and Max Lorenzano the very human man.

Although it is kind of funny that once again Pedro Pascal is saved by being a father.

Simon Stagg? I was half-expecting a Rex Mason cameo. Kind of random, but he definitely looked like Stagg.

I loved the photos indicating Diana and Etta stayed friends up until Etta grew into an old lady and were involved in WWII together (?). I wonder if "Trevor Ranch" is something Diana came up with or where Steve's family lives?

Kind of a minor thing but I actually like Diana working at the smithosonian. Like, it's not something you usually think of, but I feel like it fits her well and can do a good job of leading to adventures.

I was happy to see Steve back and his and Diana's chemistry was as palpable as ever...just, y'know, kind of ignore the awkwardness of the whole "Steve's possessing some random dudes body who Diana then promptly has sex with." It's not a dealbreaker because I know the creator's heart was in the right place and the emotional drama of Diana reuniting with and then losing Steve again was still heartfelt, but I feel like that element might have needed a bit more of a once-over.

So the Invisible Jet is a normal jet Diana kind of stole (?) and then used her Demigoddess powers to turn invisible. I guess she still has it at the end, too? Man, it was just awesome finally seeing the Invisible Jet in live-action.

I did really like how they connected Diana's feelings and bond with Steve with her finally learning to fly.

So the true villain was technically the Duke of Deception, even if it was more a long-term result from his meddling with humanity than any direct role in the plot. But it was pretty cool to see another Wonder Rogue involved in the plot, albeit in an off-handed, name-drop, way.

The Golden Eagle armor looked as impressive as it was hyped up to be! It was also really cool to see that it emphasized defense instead of offense, a touch that I also appreciated with the lack of the sword and shield. Not once did I feel like Diana was missing anything from the lack of those weapons, and it led to so, so many cool Lasso feats. It was awesome.

Lynda Carter turning out to be a legendary Amazon who inspired Diana was a terrific surprise and way of working her in. In-universe she still gets to be the original Wonder Woman whose spirit is carried on by Gal Gadot's Diana, and I just love that. Here's hoping they finally get to meet on-screen in WW3.

[AmiMizuno]

What do you guys think?

https://www.cbr.com/wonder-woman-198...ord-dr-psycho/

[brettc1]

This isn't a bombastic or action-packed Superhero movie that people might be used to, and it may not have the concise and clear storytelling of the first film, but I felt this was overall a strong and thematically appropriate followup to the first Wonder Woman film and most definitely true to the heart of the character.

One thing about the movie people complain about is that it has so few action sequences.

If you look at the original Iron Man movie it only has three. Four if you count the plane sequence as seperate.

[DochaDocha]

Any aviation experts here who can chime in on whether a person who only has experience flying 1918 military vehicles wouldn't crash and burn at his first attempt flying a 1984 fighter jet?

[FutureWonder]

Any invisibility power experts here who can chime in on whether a person who has only used such budding powers on a coffee mug can actually make an entire 1984 fighter jet invisible? Asking for a fanboy friend...

[DochaDocha]

Any invisibility power experts here who can chime in on whether a person who has only used such budding powers on a coffee mug can actually make an entire 1984 fighter jet invisible? Asking for a fanboy friend...

Maybe I should've been clearer in my first post. My question was serious. Like, is it even possible? Maybe you thought I was being snarky, so I'll take the blame for that one for not explaining that in my post.

[brettc1]

Any aviation experts here who can chime in on whether a person who only has experience flying 1918 military vehicles wouldn't crash and burn at his first attempt flying a 1984 fighter jet?

Maybe Steve trained with the same guy who taught a wet behind the ears farm boy how to go from shooting womp rats in a crop dusting aircraft, to the Ace pilot in the Rebel Alliances most sophisticated star fighter.

[DochaDocha]

Well, having played Rogue Squadron for N64, I can say flying a T16 isn't that different from flying an X-Wing.

[brettc1]

Well, having played Rogue Squadron for N64, I can say flying a T16 isn't that different from flying an X-Wing.

Rogue Squadron on the N64!?

Dude, as far as Star Wars and WW84 are concerned, you’re good to take up an F-22 Raptor right now

[Johnny Thunders!]

Any invisibility power experts here who can chime in on whether a person who has only used such budding powers on a coffee mug can actually make an entire 1984 fighter jet invisible? Asking for a fanboy friend...

From the hand gestures I saw, it looks like making meatballs or working with clay.