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  1. #1726
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    I feel the same way, also maybe make his design more Perez's with the blue rather than drab gun metal grey. Though that's just more I'm tired of that being a usual movie super villain color.

    I heard some it would have hit Diana more if she learns man do this all of their own making but idk, I thought it still works with that the even if the God of War does exist he didn't make man do anything to start WW1.
    Man still did it all on their own. Ares took advantage of what was there and gave them nudges and risked making it worse, but he didn't do everything. That was always a complaint (not from you, but others) that never made sense to me. it's spelled out in no uncertain terms in the movie

  2. #1727
    Mighty Member Goldrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    A show from the 1970s that most modern audiences neither know about nor care about.
    In europe, WW is very popular because of that show. I worked there for years, occasionally that show is still shown on some channels. Dc had to target that audience as overseas, with some exceptions, there isn't much of comic characters culture except bat, superman, spidey the rest are mostly unknown.
    But WW is a recognizable face and popular.

  3. #1728
    Fantastic Member VonHammersmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    I feel the same way, also maybe make his design more Perez's with the blue rather than drab gun metal grey. Though that's just more I'm tired of that being a usual movie super villain color.

    I heard some it would have hit Diana more if she learns man do this all of their own making but idk, I thought it still works with that the even if the God of War does exist he didn't make man do anything to start WW1.
    The biggest flaw in the first WW movie is when Diana kills Ares and it looks as though the Germans snap out of his thrall which seemingly contradicts the whole story. The ending wasn’t very well resolved.

  4. #1729
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonHammersmark View Post
    The biggest flaw in the first WW movie is when Diana kills Ares and it looks as though the Germans snap out of his thrall which seemingly contradicts the whole story. The ending wasn’t very well resolved.
    I took it as more relief they survived Diana and Ares fight but fair enough that aspect wasn’t communicated well enough.

  5. #1730
    Fantastic Member VonHammersmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    I took it as more relief they survived Diana and Ares fight but fair enough that aspect wasn’t communicated well enough.
    It was meant to be relief that the War was over, thanks to Steve who laid down his life to ensure the Germans signed the Armistice despite Ludendorff’s and Dr.Poison’s efforts to undermine it. “I can save today, you can save the World”.

    I also take issue with Wonder Woman killing German soldiers because a) those men were just a bunch of ordinary Joes who were expected to lay down their lives for the land of their birth and b) Diana thought they were being mind-controlled

    In WW84, PJ sort of rectified that though spoilers:
    Steve grabs a sword off the wall in the White House and Diana's like "No Steve, put that down, it's not their fault"
    end of spoilers
    Last edited by VonHammersmark; 12-21-2020 at 09:33 AM.

  6. #1731
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geraldofrivia View Post
    What about the third act which was universally panned for terrible CGI and cartoonish depiction of Ares
    As others have said , a lot of these complaints about Wonder Woman's final act seem to be made in bad faith. These sorts of scenes of ubiquitous in the genre so signalling out Wonder Woman for having them comes across as cherry picking at a minimum. The basic idea being "You think this film is so great? Well it has something that every other film in its genre does, checkmate!"
    #InGunnITrust, #ZackSnyderistheBlueprint, #ReleasetheAyerCut

  7. #1732
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I can see complaints about the execution of the CGI, because WB's films don't have the highest quality of CGI. But the plot devolving to a CGI slugfest is inevitable due to the nature of these characters, they are mostly impossible to pull off without it and WW didn't do anything different from other films. And I think it was mostly critics and nerds who criticized the third act, I at least haven't encountered any casual viewers who were really turned off by it.

    Loud CGI battles can be annoying in blockbusters in general, not just superhero ones. it's kind of why older action movies are better for me and superheroes ideally work best in animation.

  8. #1733
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I can see complaints about the execution of the CGI, because WB's films don't have the highest quality of CGI. But the plot devolving to a CGI slugfest is inevitable due to the nature of these characters, they are mostly impossible to pull off without it and WW didn't do anything different from other films. And I think it was mostly critics and nerds who criticized the third act, I at least haven't encountered any casual viewers who were really turned off by it.

    Loud CGI battles can be annoying in blockbusters in general, not just superhero ones. it's kind of why older action movies are better for me and superheroes ideally work best in animation.
    Well, here's one. Honestly, I wish they'd at least tried in that act. I want best possible WW, not WW slapped together on the back of a used napkin. Hopefully they did better this time.

  9. #1734
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Aside from the actor playing Ares being miscast in a physical sense (they really should have gone full Perez and not let us see him anymore besides red eyes and a voice), I never really got the third act complaints for this movie.

    It strikes me as no more offensive than any other big, dumb superhero movie (they are all pretty dumb to varying degrees, even the good ones).
    The third act complaints were because the third act was terrible, far worse than most movies. It was a textbook case on how not to write. It was like they got tired when they were writing that act, and just said, "good enough" after one of their kids sketched it out in crayon. Basically, the whole movie was a mess, poorly plotted, (damn, Steve, you're really stupid, aren't you? You know you can....drop those bombs over uninhabited land, don't you? Unless you just really wanted to die so you could get away from the Howling Stereotypes who never get a payoff or have any importance to the movie at all), and what exactly was Are's big plan anyway? He seemed to have forgotten he's not only Ned Flanders, but also the God of War...he has powers he can use to get his wars. I won't even mention the bit where they all got tired again and just ended with a bewildering CGI fest where she pulls a previously unseen and never explained new power out of the ...screenwriter's butt. And the bit where Captain Kirk does his best bad German accent to talk in English to the German soldier, because that totally works. German soldiers from WWI of course only used English. I will take a swipe at it for copying Captain America's own much better third act. Only with none of the skill, acting, or emotional resonance of that movie. My advice to them is that if you want to rip off something, at least do a good job.

  10. #1735
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Well, here's one. Honestly, I wish they'd at least tried in that act. I want best possible WW, not WW slapped together on the back of a used napkin. Hopefully they did better this time.
    Casual viewers don't talk about comic books on forums dedicated to them, so I don't think you qualify

    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    The third act complaints were because the third act was terrible, far worse than most movies. It was a textbook case on how not to write. It was like they got tired when they were writing that act, and just said, "good enough" after one of their kids sketched it out in crayon. Basically, the whole movie was a mess, poorly plotted, (damn, Steve, you're really stupid, aren't you? You know you can....drop those bombs over uninhabited land, don't you? Unless you just really wanted to die so you could get away from the Howling Stereotypes who never get a payoff or have any importance to the movie at all), and what exactly was Are's big plan anyway? He seemed to have forgotten he's not only Ned Flanders, but also the God of War...he has powers he can use to get his wars. I won't even mention the bit where they all got tired again and just ended with a bewildering CGI fest where she pulls a previously unseen and never explained new power out of the ...screenwriter's butt. And the bit where Captain Kirk does his best bad German accent to talk in English to the German soldier, because that totally works. German soldiers from WWI of course only used English. I will take a swipe at it for copying Captain America's own much better third act. Only with none of the skill, acting, or emotional resonance of that movie. My advice to them is that if you want to rip off something, at least do a good job.
    This seems overly nitpicky, IMO. Ares's motivation and manipulations are straight out of the comics like the Perez run. He gets nothing from using his powers to start wars himself, he needs to feed of man's capacity for bloodshed and nudge them to create more so he can feed off it further.

    Diana didn't pull a power out of her ass, she'd been displaying signs of it as early as the first act. They were difficult scenes to miss.

    What payoff are you expecting for Steve's companions? They are just supporting allies. Most of the Howling Commandos in Cap 1 didn't get any payoff. Also, Red Skull spoke heavily accented English throughout the movie.

    These are all pretty big reaches.
    Last edited by SiegePerilous02; 12-21-2020 at 11:06 AM.

  11. #1736
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    The third act complaints were because the third act was terrible, far worse than most movies. It was a textbook case on how not to write. It was like they got tired when they were writing that act, and just said, "good enough" after one of their kids sketched it out in crayon. Basically, the whole movie was a mess, poorly plotted, (damn, Steve, you're really stupid, aren't you? You know you can....drop those bombs over uninhabited land, don't you? Unless you just really wanted to die so you could get away from the Howling Stereotypes who never get a payoff or have any importance to the movie at all), and what exactly was Are's big plan anyway? He seemed to have forgotten he's not only Ned Flanders, but also the God of War...he has powers he can use to get his wars. I won't even mention the bit where they all got tired again and just ended with a bewildering CGI fest where she pulls a previously unseen and never explained new power out of the ...screenwriter's butt. And the bit where Captain Kirk does his best bad German accent to talk in English to the German soldier, because that totally works. German soldiers from WWI of course only used English. I will take a swipe at it for copying Captain America's own much better third act. Only with none of the skill, acting, or emotional resonance of that movie. My advice to them is that if you want to rip off something, at least do a good job.
    Calling it worse than most movies is the height of hyperbole.

    And where was this uninhabited land Steve was supposed to drop those bombs? Was he supposed to create some out of thin air?

    Ares's ability cause wars was stated to be very limited. He can't cause one to happen out of thin air and he was only taking advantage of World War 1 to get what he wanted.

    The supporting characters were important as supporting characters are supposed to be Charlie did get pay off. I'm not sure exactly what you wanted from them.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 12-21-2020 at 11:07 AM.

  12. #1737
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I can see complaints about the execution of the CGI, because WB's films don't have the highest quality of CGI. But the plot devolving to a CGI slugfest is inevitable due to the nature of these characters, they are mostly impossible to pull off without it and WW didn't do anything different from other films. And I think it was mostly critics and nerds who criticized the third act, I at least haven't encountered any casual viewers who were really turned off by it.
    I don't even recall critics being that upset with the Ares cgi stuff, what stood out to me was a criticism that it was a cliche for the Ares to say 'come join me.'

    Loud CGI battles can be annoying in blockbusters in general, not just superhero ones. it's kind of why older action movies are better for me and superheroes ideally work best in animation.
    Yeah, this is why I've come to appreciate older films more than more.
    #InGunnITrust, #ZackSnyderistheBlueprint, #ReleasetheAyerCut

  13. #1738
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarFarr View Post
    That movie had problems from the beginning, from being R rated etc. it did not deliver as they expected, they had too much high hopes on HQ being that popular to carry the movie and it misfired. To an extent that WB changed the name of the movie, but again it didn't help. It needed to make 250million to break even, according to Variety. So unfortunately it did not.
    I'm just applying the standard formula, which is doubling the production cost. If it makes less than double its a flop, if it made more than double it's production cost, it's not. That doesn't make the film a success though.
    #InGunnITrust, #ZackSnyderistheBlueprint, #ReleasetheAyerCut

  14. #1739
    Mighty Member Goldrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    I'm just applying the standard formula, which is doubling the production cost. If it makes less than double its a flop, if it made more than double it's production cost, it's not. That doesn't make the film a success though.
    We are OT on this - Variety said and on this stuff they tend to be accurate, that it needed to do between 250M - 300M, so it wasn't a success. Besides it has been confirmed that WB has no plans for a sequel and that confirms that they aren't happy with it. You might be doing the correct formula but you don't know what amount was spent on marketing.

  15. #1740
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I feel like I'm one of the few who actually liked the climax with Ares in the movie...

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