Wonder Woman 1984: Discussion, Set Leaks & Spoilers #WW84

[Geraldofrivia]

WW84 rotten tomatoes has dropped to 75!

[brettc1]

I’ve seen the movie now but are we posting pistvrelease discussion here, or will it get its own thread?

[Awonder]

I’ve seen the movie now

Hey Brett, how are you? =)

What score would you give the movie?

[Goldrake]

WW84 rotten tomatoes has dropped to 75!

So what, those ratings don't mean that much. They gave movies like Aquaman lower ratings and it was a massive hit.

[SiegePerilous02]

Considering the DCEU's early track record, a movie in the 70s range is perfectly fine.

Most CBMs really only warrant that range, IMO.

[brettc1]

Hey Brett, how are you? =)

What score would you give the movie?

Hey there. I know it’s been a while. Crazy, crazy year.

Having given the first one 9.5 out of 10 (the only thing being the poor casting for Ares imo) On first viewing I would give this an 8.

I do know that there is something that is going to make a lot of WW fans go nuts in a very good way ��

[Castling]

Well, I think I've made it clear that I didn't enjoy the first movie, mostly due to the third act and that ending---for which I've gotten some shade in various places...but you know who else apparently wasn't fond of that ending? Patty Jenkins, who has said the ending was forced on her by WB. Which isn't uncommon, and very rarely ends well.

Patty said she came to love the ending even though it's not what she wanted.

[Castling]

Black Panther also had its detractors among people of color, especially the "Killmonger was right" crowd and those who hated that a CIA agent was depicted as a good guy.

No matter how popular something is, there will always be fringe commenters bashing it.

A lot of dyed in wool Black Panther fans were upset that Shiri was depicted as "the intelligent one" of the two siblings; not that Shiri was intelligent, but that that particular facet of T'Challa was downplayed.

[Agent Z]

So there's a part in the movie that shows some... tonedeafness on the movie's part as seen in this review:

spoilers:

For some reason, they decide to have Pedro Pascal’s Max Lord go to Cairo in order to seize the oil rights from a powerful man, Emir Said Bin Abydos, whose magical wish is to regain his ancestral lands and cast out the heathens. Wait, there’s more. Diana and Steve go to stop him, but not before Lord causes a giant wall to rise through Cairo and cut off the poorest people from their water supply, sparking sectarian violence. Then, there’s a huge, drawn-out, stunningly unexciting road chase scene where Diana and Steve fight a private Egyptian security force that’s defending Lord. This means that Diana messes up a bunch of Egyptians while vehicles marked with Arabic blaze by and/or explode. She also saves a couple of kids, speaking Arabic to them, who gaze upon her worshipfully before being returned to their mother, who is clothed head to toe in black in contrast to Diana’s skin-baring red, blue, and gold ensemble. Whatever they’re trying to say here is nothing good. My jaw was dropped for however many head-scratching, mind-boggling minutes this mess took, and it was a lot. To have Gadot, an Israeli actress who is already subject to online trolling, debate, and scrutiny for that fact, beating up a bunch of faceless but clearly Arab men in a film that’s meant to take place two years after Israel invaded Lebanon (where Wonder Woman was banned because of Gadot’s nationality) is just astounding to me. Quite frankly, it shocked me so much that it’s going to be my major takeaway from this film. The optics of causing an actual wall to arise through a country engaged in conflict in the Middle East, cutting off supplies, SPECIFICALLY WATER, to already disenfranchised people, and only our Israeli action star is here to save the day as a savior to the children? How could hundreds of people be involved in this filmmaking decision and still approve it? Is this meant to call attention to Israel’s wall-building apartheid state and their cutting off of Palestinian water supplies? If not, what are they doing? If so, what does it mean to also have an Israeli star as the hero here? Is Diana meant to be symbolically healing the divide? If this was the intent, it’s done so sloppily as to be insulting. Just as I felt like I was slowly becoming unhinged watching this last night and yelling at my TV screen, I feel unhinged typing out the circumstances of the Egypt Detour here. Gadot’s involvement and those staggering optics aside, the sequences are just completely unnecessary, the sort of stereotypical BS depictions of “Arabs” that we saw a lot of in the post-9/11 film world. Adding nothing to the plot while serving to be seriously jarring, it’s just baffling that any of this made it to the final cut. They couldn’t have shifted this to something concerning a Soviet oil baron like every other ’80s film, and avoided any kind of controversy? What was returning director Patty Jenkins, who wrote the script with Geoff Johns and Dave Callaham, possibly thinking?

end of spoilers

https://www.themarysue.com/review-wo...#disqus_thread

[brettc1]

So there's a part in the movie that shows some... tonedeafness on the movie's part as seen in this review:

spoilers:

For some reason, they decide to have Pedro Pascal’s Max Lord go to Cairo in order to seize the oil rights from a powerful man, Emir Said Bin Abydos, whose magical wish is to regain his ancestral lands and cast out the heathens. Wait, there’s more. Diana and Steve go to stop him, but not before Lord causes a giant wall to rise through Cairo and cut off the poorest people from their water supply, sparking sectarian violence. Then, there’s a huge, drawn-out, stunningly unexciting road chase scene where Diana and Steve fight a private Egyptian security force that’s defending Lord. This means that Diana messes up a bunch of Egyptians while vehicles marked with Arabic blaze by and/or explode. She also saves a couple of kids, speaking Arabic to them, who gaze upon her worshipfully before being returned to their mother, who is clothed head to toe in black in contrast to Diana’s skin-baring red, blue, and gold ensemble. Whatever they’re trying to say here is nothing good. My jaw was dropped for however many head-scratching, mind-boggling minutes this mess took, and it was a lot. To have Gadot, an Israeli actress who is already subject to online trolling, debate, and scrutiny for that fact, beating up a bunch of faceless but clearly Arab men in a film that’s meant to take place two years after Israel invaded Lebanon (where Wonder Woman was banned because of Gadot’s nationality) is just astounding to me. Quite frankly, it shocked me so much that it’s going to be my major takeaway from this film. The optics of causing an actual wall to arise through a country engaged in conflict in the Middle East, cutting off supplies, SPECIFICALLY WATER, to already disenfranchised people, and only our Israeli action star is here to save the day as a savior to the children? How could hundreds of people be involved in this filmmaking decision and still approve it? Is this meant to call attention to Israel’s wall-building apartheid state and their cutting off of Palestinian water supplies? If not, what are they doing? If so, what does it mean to also have an Israeli star as the hero here? Is Diana meant to be symbolically healing the divide? If this was the intent, it’s done so sloppily as to be insulting. Just as I felt like I was slowly becoming unhinged watching this last night and yelling at my TV screen, I feel unhinged typing out the circumstances of the Egypt Detour here. Gadot’s involvement and those staggering optics aside, the sequences are just completely unnecessary, the sort of stereotypical BS depictions of “Arabs” that we saw a lot of in the post-9/11 film world. Adding nothing to the plot while serving to be seriously jarring, it’s just baffling that any of this made it to the final cut. They couldn’t have shifted this to something concerning a Soviet oil baron like every other ’80s film, and avoided any kind of controversy? What was returning director Patty Jenkins, who wrote the script with Geoff Johns and Dave Callaham, possibly thinking?

end of spoilers

https://www.themarysue.com/review-wo...#disqus_thread

Hmmm.

spoilers:

Wonder Woman isn’t Israeli. She also has to beat up a bunch of US soldiers, White House security, and secret service agents. She doesn’t say anything about the mothers burka. Personally I found that affirming, not insulting. Abydos also revokes his wish at the end, reuniting the country. You could equally talk about the Republican president’s wish being to have more nukes than anyone being a sorry stereotype. Not to mention the tensions shown between Englad and Ireland.

end of spoilers

[Pinsir]

I was actually kind of curious if people we're gonna hate the movie because Gaddot is Israeli and uh...holy crap that is bad.

[Awonder]

Hey there. I know it’s been a while. Crazy, crazy year.

Having given the first one 9.5 out of 10 (the only thing being the poor casting for Ares imo) On first viewing I would give this an 8.

I do know that there is something that is going to make a lot of WW fans go nuts in a very good way ��

I figured that the sequel wouldn't quite live up to the original (few do). Still, an 8 sounds pretty good.

So there's a part in the movie that shows some... tonedeafness on the movie's part as seen in this review:

https://www.themarysue.com/review-wo...#disqus_thread

Holy political projections, Batman! When can a movie scene just be a movie scene?

spoilers:

Wonder Woman isn’t Israeli.

end of spoilers

I'm pretty sure that's not a spoiler. =p

[Psy-lock]

So there's a part in the movie that shows some... tonedeafness on the movie's part as seen in this review:

spoilers:

For some reason, they decide to have Pedro Pascal’s Max Lord go to Cairo in order to seize the oil rights from a powerful man, Emir Said Bin Abydos, whose magical wish is to regain his ancestral lands and cast out the heathens. Wait, there’s more. Diana and Steve go to stop him, but not before Lord causes a giant wall to rise through Cairo and cut off the poorest people from their water supply, sparking sectarian violence. Then, there’s a huge, drawn-out, stunningly unexciting road chase scene where Diana and Steve fight a private Egyptian security force that’s defending Lord. This means that Diana messes up a bunch of Egyptians while vehicles marked with Arabic blaze by and/or explode. She also saves a couple of kids, speaking Arabic to them, who gaze upon her worshipfully before being returned to their mother, who is clothed head to toe in black in contrast to Diana’s skin-baring red, blue, and gold ensemble. Whatever they’re trying to say here is nothing good. My jaw was dropped for however many head-scratching, mind-boggling minutes this mess took, and it was a lot. To have Gadot, an Israeli actress who is already subject to online trolling, debate, and scrutiny for that fact, beating up a bunch of faceless but clearly Arab men in a film that’s meant to take place two years after Israel invaded Lebanon (where Wonder Woman was banned because of Gadot’s nationality) is just astounding to me. Quite frankly, it shocked me so much that it’s going to be my major takeaway from this film. The optics of causing an actual wall to arise through a country engaged in conflict in the Middle East, cutting off supplies, SPECIFICALLY WATER, to already disenfranchised people, and only our Israeli action star is here to save the day as a savior to the children? How could hundreds of people be involved in this filmmaking decision and still approve it? Is this meant to call attention to Israel’s wall-building apartheid state and their cutting off of Palestinian water supplies? If not, what are they doing? If so, what does it mean to also have an Israeli star as the hero here? Is Diana meant to be symbolically healing the divide? If this was the intent, it’s done so sloppily as to be insulting. Just as I felt like I was slowly becoming unhinged watching this last night and yelling at my TV screen, I feel unhinged typing out the circumstances of the Egypt Detour here. Gadot’s involvement and those staggering optics aside, the sequences are just completely unnecessary, the sort of stereotypical BS depictions of “Arabs” that we saw a lot of in the post-9/11 film world. Adding nothing to the plot while serving to be seriously jarring, it’s just baffling that any of this made it to the final cut. They couldn’t have shifted this to something concerning a Soviet oil baron like every other ’80s film, and avoided any kind of controversy? What was returning director Patty Jenkins, who wrote the script with Geoff Johns and Dave Callaham, possibly thinking?

end of spoilers

https://www.themarysue.com/review-wo...#disqus_thread

I can't comment on the depiction of the Arabs until I watch the movie myself, but it's ironic that the article complaining about its tone deafness is quite tone deaf itself. So much attention is brought to Gadot's nationality as if she's personally responsible for everything the Israeli government does. And the character she's playing isn't even Izraeli! I also love the suggestion to switch the evil Arabs for evil Russians, cause that's not an offensive stereotype or anything...

That being said, the movie definitely has...issues (at least from what I've heard). Not sure what Patty Jenkins was thinking with some story choices.

[Geraldofrivia]

Hmmm.

spoilers:

Wonder Woman isn’t Israeli. She also has to beat up a bunch of US soldiers, White House security, and secret service agents. She doesn’t say anything about the mothers burka. Personally I found that affirming, not insulting. Abydos also revokes his wish at the end, reuniting the country. You could equally talk about the Republican president’s wish being to have more nukes than anyone being a sorry stereotype. Not to mention the tensions shown between Englad and Ireland.

end of spoilers

That website is known for clickbait outrage trolling. They claimed all negative critic reviews of Captain Marvel was from men which was fake news. They want outrage clicks. Pls ignore them.

[brettc1]

Okay so here goes.

Negatives.

spoilers:

It feels too long. Largely because of the very drama based act two. Needed more action to mix it up. I wasn’t very happy with WW being deposited for most of the movie. She’s still impressive but I was left a bit dissatisfied. The whole body stealing thing with Steve. They never even address the fact that a guy’s life has been stolen and Diana seems happy to leave it that way. That was just weird. The Wish Stone seemed a bit lame. Not as many laughs as the first movie. Wasn’t really sold on Diana’s new invisibility power. The last fight with Cheetsh was mostly in the dark and hard to follow. It also felt a bit too Spider-Man with all the swinging around.

end of spoilers

The good

spoilers:

Max Lord/Pedro Pascal - just brilliant. Brilliant writing and superbly acted. You can hardly call him the villain here, because his character is so layered. Still, the Duke of Deception line was appreciated Kirsten Wigg is great as Cheetah and the way her character evolves is very clever. Wonder Woman SAVES people. Consistently, all through the movie we see her interest in protecting lives. Not to harp on Man of Steel, nut this was sooooooo much better. The big save at the end and No NECK SNAP. Anyone familiar with the Max Lord story arc by Rucka knows what I mean. Disna shows her greatest power is to change hearts. And again, Pedro Pascsl really sells it. The cameo at the end. And. SHE FLIES! WOO-HOOO!

end of spoilers