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  1. #2416
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FutureWonder View Post
    Today I was talking to a co-worker who is a long-time fan of WW. We were discussing the new Superman & Lois TV show and the topic of keeping WW in the public consciousness between movies came up (especially post WW84, a film that might or might have not tarnished the luster of WW the cinematic brand a little). I argued that WB/DC should give Diana the same amount of ancillary media love that Supes and Bats gets ---animated solo shows, live-action prequels or "sidequels" or whatnot.
    And we could not understand why the CW can make all these shows about Stargirl, Flash, Green Arrow et al, but never one about Donna, the Amazons, or even Diana herself. What's the real reason for Diana not appearing in anything else? It cannot be "lack of popularity," right? Was anyone clamoring for a Stargirl TV show? Certainly, Wonder Woman is infinitely better known and a more "sellable" brand than Stargirl.
    Well, for some of that I imagine it's brand building for Stargirl to be a gateway to buildup stuff like the JSA (like with that Black Adam movie also) but yeah WB can get rather byzantine with their policies on who they let on TV and the movies. I don't watch CW but from what I can tell the most WW stuff they've done is some winks/nods here and there.

    I imagine Superman getting a CW show is because Superman as movie franchise seems a less priority for the film division at the moment. Even effected Batman sometimes with the old Bat-Embargo from years back.

  2. #2417
    Mighty Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FutureWonder View Post
    Today I was talking to a co-worker who is a long-time fan of WW. We were discussing the new Superman & Lois TV show and the topic of keeping WW in the public consciousness between movies came up (especially post WW84, a film that might or might have not tarnished the luster of WW the cinematic brand a little). I argued that WB/DC should give Diana the same amount of ancillary media love that Supes and Bats gets ---animated solo shows, live-action prequels or "sidequels" or whatnot.
    And we could not understand why the CW can make all these shows about Stargirl, Flash, Green Arrow et al, but never one about Donna, the Amazons, or even Diana herself. What's the real reason for Diana not appearing in anything else? It cannot be "lack of popularity," right? Was anyone clamoring for a Stargirl TV show? Certainly, Wonder Woman is infinitely better known and a more "sellable" brand than Stargirl.
    WB doesn't like to cross their characters over between movies and live action TV shows for some reason, especially with the big three. I don't think there will be a Wonder Woman TV show until the Wonder Woman trilogy is completed or maybe even until Gal is done with the character.

    They still might make an animated series. That's more likely than a live action TV show until the movies are done.

  3. #2418
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    WB doesn't like to cross their characters over between movies and live action TV shows for some reason, especially with the big three.
    Superman Returns opened in 2006 while Smallville's fifth season was airing on TV. And sorry, the show may have been about a pre-costumed-hero career Clark, but it was still about him, one of the Big Three, and featured lots of elements and iconography that was 100 % Superman's.
    I am sure that DC can do it if they wanted. A show featuring young Diana and the amazons of Themyscira would be a phenomenal way to entrench Diana even more in pop culture. and this show could actually feature Nubia, and maybe the early lives of some of those people who would eventually become Diana's biggest enemies (Circe, Eris, and Ares come to mind).
    Last edited by FutureWonder; 02-23-2021 at 05:33 PM.

  4. #2419
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FutureWonder View Post
    And we could not understand why the CW can make all these shows about Stargirl, Flash, Green Arrow et al, but never one about Donna, the Amazons, or even Diana herself. What's the real reason for Diana not appearing in anything else? It cannot be "lack of popularity," right? Was anyone clamoring for a Stargirl TV show? Certainly, Wonder Woman is infinitely better known and a more "sellable" brand than Stargirl.
    Maybe WB thinks putting WW on CW would be like Morton's Steakhouse teaming up with McDonald's to sell the Morton's Burger. Morton's could sell more, but it doesn't go along with Morton's overall brand. I (would like to) think WB reserves the JL characters for high-profile movies, and uses the lesser-known characters for avenues such as CW.

  5. #2420
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Maybe WB thinks putting WW on CW would be like Morton's Steakhouse teaming up with McDonald's to sell the Morton's Burger. Morton's could sell more, but it doesn't go along with Morton's overall brand. I (would like to) think WB reserves the JL characters for high-profile movies, and uses the lesser-known characters for avenues such as CW.
    I totally get what you mean. However, I feel that whether those TV shows are perceived as maybe not as polished or high-profile as the movies, they are still invaluable tools to keep characters firmly entrenched in the public consciousness. The Wonder Woman side of the DC universe could definitely use a boost as far as pop culture penetration. There is a reason that so many people are familiar with names like Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, Selina Kyle, Perry White, et all. All the animated shows, CW showcases, and other "lesser" platforms help them be constantly present in pop culture. This is what Diana [and Hippolyta, Donna, Steve, Etta, Nubia and others in the "wonderverse"] needs, in my opinion.

  6. #2421
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Maybe WB thinks putting WW on CW would be like Morton's Steakhouse teaming up with McDonald's to sell the Morton's Burger. Morton's could sell more, but it doesn't go along with Morton's overall brand. I (would like to) think WB reserves the JL characters for high-profile movies, and uses the lesser-known characters for avenues such as CW.
    You could make the argument that Superman is too strong of a brand to be damaged by being in so many tv shows, but what about The Flash? Plus Wonder Woman did have a 2011 tv pilot, they just decided not to order a series, so it doesn't seem like it's inconceivable to them.

  7. #2422
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    You could make the argument that Superman is too strong of a brand to be damaged by being in so many tv shows, but what about The Flash? Plus Wonder Woman did have a 2011 tv pilot, they just decided not to order a series, so it doesn't seem like it's inconceivable to them.
    This is complete conjecture, but I'm guessing that Superman is coming to CW because they've absolutely stalled in the movies, and Flash TV predates the DCEU so it's grandfathered in there. It doesn't predate MoS, but it got pitched long before we got Batman in the DCEU.

  8. #2423
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    So? By 2014 they were already thinking about having Flash appear in BvS.

  9. #2424
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    So? By 2014 they were already thinking about having Flash appear in BvS.
    EDIT: Okay, I had some items in my timeline wrong. But I think Flash was pitched and sold early enough before WB had any real or concrete vision on what they wanted in their movie extended universe.
    Last edited by DochaDocha; 02-24-2021 at 06:01 PM.

  10. #2425
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    EDIT: Okay, I had some items in my timeline wrong. But I think Flash was pitched and sold early enough before WB had any real or concrete vision on what they wanted in their movie extended universe.
    Pilots are often the longest part of any TV show production, sometimes taken several years. So I wouldn't be surprised if the pilot was finished and the show greenlit by the time they considered having Flash in BvS.

    Hanry Cavil's Superman is sadly dead in the water at the moment, and has been since Justice League bombed 3 years ago. And since WB had no intention of continuing the Justice League movies shortly after the first movie dropped, I wouldn't be surprised if they hightailed production on Superman & Lois. It explains why they put more money into it, and didn't waste time potentially hiring new lead actors (it's possible they didn't want to hire new lead actors but it saves them a lot of time regardless).

    But I think WB is reluctant to avoid multiple versions of their characters floating around on movies and tv shows so audiences don't compare and plots don't get redundant. Like, how many more times do you want to watch Flash learn the lesson "don't mess with time travel". He's learned it in multiple cartoons, the TV shows and now he's going to learn it again in a blockbuster.
    I know it's the execution of a plot that counts, but Flash has been in this rut for a while now.

    It's kind of a sour excuse but I wouldn't be surprised if it's the excuse WB is using.

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  12. #2427
    Incredible Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    The way they talk about the supposed Amazon spin-off is always so vague and unsure. Like shouldn't they already be filming it if it's supposed to lead into WW3? I'm having some serious doubts it's actually going to be made.

  13. #2428
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    I don't think it will. Agent Carter was set in a somewhat relatable world and it still struggled. But a show set centuries ago with women on horseback with names like Menalippe?

    I'm doubtful that'll sell.

  14. #2429
    Incredible Member Castling's Avatar
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    This is pretty cool!


  15. #2430
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    I finally gave up on waiting for theatres to open here (heck, I'm even unsure if it will be shown in theatres here ever), so foul-shared it.

    Given the various reviews and reviewers panning it, including from some fan critics I really trust, I was pleasantly surprised. I'm sure there is stuff that won't look as good as I mull over it more, and it lacked the emotional oomph that the first movie carried, but there was still a lot to like.

    I liked the way Barbara Ann Minerva was depicted, how Maxwell Lord used her insecurities against her, the way that her relation with Diana was implied to turn to love but ending up as hate, or her cattiness towards Steve. I still think I'd have liked another main villain than Maxwell Lord, but Pedro Pascal did excellent work as an actor and this was a very different take on Maxwell Lord than the comics versions that I'm familiar with. And the Trump call-outs were really well done.

    Chris Pine was probably the weakest of the main side characters, but Steve in this movie is basically a McGuffin. He had no real character arc or conflict to work with, and it showed. He got to show off some comedy, though, and I liked how his talk about flying inspired Diana. Her learning to fly scene was also well done, in a manner entirely different from the Superman first flight scenes. One issue with showing Wonder Woman flying Superman-style is of course that then the camera would look right up her cleavage, and they largely avoided that. Only real trouble is that I think the pacing and sequence undercut the lassoing lightning scene, which turned into a blink and you'll miss it moment rather than a wow moment.

    The invisible jet was nice, and the just-in-time nature of Diana willing the jet to become invisible was lampshaded and got a bit of added levity with the invisible lost coffeecup.

    A word on the Amazons. The huge crowd at the games was awesome, and much better done than the similar amphitheatre scene in Aquaman—I have no idea how many extras they needed. And I really liked that Hippolyta was shown as proud of her daughter, rather than overprotective.

    So was there stuff I didn't like? The golden armour felt tacked-on and lacked purpose other than to be partially torn apart by Cheetah. I wish we could have some superhero final fights that aren't in darkness. The resolution felt like it could have been stronger and lacked preparation prior in the movie. It lacked the allies that were so important to the 2017 movie. It also didn't manage to make the internal conflict that Diana and the world had to handle as visceral as was done there. In a very real way, this was a superhero movie without bad guys. On one hand, that felt fresh and new, on the other, it felt like it failed to manage to make it really work.

    But at its core, this was a movie and a story that understood Wonder Woman and what she stands for. It pitted love against truth; I just wish the movie could have made that conflict a little more clear and visceral.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

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