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Thread: First Born

  1. #1
    The Last Dragon masterwitcher88's Avatar
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    Default First Born

    I'm just curious to hear peoples opinions on him.

    How do you feel about him as a villain? What about him makes a good candidate for a villain? What about his design would change/keep? What about his powers? Him as a threat? Would he be reoccurring? Is he just a Herakles rip off? Do you hate him as a character?

    Just give me all your thoughts.
    Zaldrīzes Buzdari Iksos Daor

  2. #2
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    The First Born is Diana's Kurgan. Not all of us appreciated that, thought Diana needed such a villain or saw Diana having parallels with Highlander or similar adventurers (Doc Savage, Lara Croft, etc). I also think Brian's inability to effectively write a bigger story for him - one that felt broader, in scope, to the reader - hurt the character, going forward.

    His original backstory and clear motivation makes him one of WWs best foes.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 06-16-2020 at 05:11 PM.
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  3. #3
    Incredible Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Felt like the general concept could have been better used for a re-imagined version of a New 52 Hercules but I appreciate it was at least an attempt to create character unique to her mythos rather than plucking another name from public domain mythology. Didn't really care for the execution of it though.

  4. #4
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    Would've been fine for a 6 issue story arc, but for a brand new villain that nobody asked for to be the center of a 35 issue run? No, thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    I'm just curious to hear peoples opinions on him.

    How do you feel about him as a villain? What about him makes a good candidate for a villain? What about his design would change/keep? What about his powers? Him as a threat? Would he be reoccurring? Is he just a Herakles rip off? Do you hate him as a character?

    Just give me all your thoughts.
    I actually wouldn't mind him being a recurring villain. I loved the way Jim Lee drew him on Wonder Woman's recent 750 Villains Special Cover, and I also thought the book lost a golden opportunity to bring him back during the Children of the Gods arc. Imagine Wonder Woman having to reluctantly team up with First Born to keep him safe from Grail as she and Argus realize he's her next victim.

    I think Frist Born could be a strong addition to Wondy's rogues, but I think that about roughly 90% of her unused rogues, so thoughts don't get me very far.

  6. #6
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    I'm fine if he doesn't return. I don't think fans of Brian Azz run are really that attached to him and would rather see a return of some of his female characters ( like Strife). He reminds me of White Magician, a character that served a point for Loebs run, but was ultimately overshadowed by the other elements of his work.

    I think this is the fate for most male-villain leads in the WW franchise. Does anyone really care about Deimos and...uh, other dude from Rucka's newest run? Design wise they weren't even as interesting as Perez's original twin brothers. Not-Satan from John Byrne is the same, he 'killed' Wonder Woman but he's so detached from WW's mythos.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

  7. #7
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    I'm fine if he doesn't return. I don't think fans of Brian Azz run are really that attached to him and would rather see a return of some of his female characters ( like Strife). He reminds me of White Magician, a character that served a point for Loebs run, but was ultimately overshadowed by the other elements of his work.

    I think this is the fate for most male-villain leads in the WW franchise. Does anyone really care about Deimos and...uh, other dude from Rucka's newest run? Design wise they weren't even as interesting as Perez's original twin brothers. Not-Satan from John Byrne is the same, he 'killed' Wonder Woman but he's so detached from WW's mythos.
    I love Deimos and Phobos! But yeah, their original designs are definitely more memorable even if I do love their pompous twin looks, too.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    To me he is kinda like an Anti-Monitor, he served his purpose and further appearances would likely only diminish him.

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    He was too generic in concept and design to be anything more than a one-run-wonder. Plus, Diana defeated him by tricking him into falling into a bottomless pit. How much of a threat can he be perceived as after being beaten like a Looney Toons or Disney villain?
    Currently Reading:Hawkman, Justice League, Justice League Dark, Legion of Super Heroes, Shazam, Wonder Woman, & Young Justice.

  10. #10
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    The initial premise of the First Born, his Hyena-men and his alliance with Cassandra the Mad, with her wonder-powers and her flying Carrier - it was all so cool. It was. Basically, he was the Kurgan from Highlander teaming up with an evil Bionic Woman...what's not to LOVE?

    Then, he became the pork chop god of Pot Roast Mountain, I everything got bloody and gross. Basically, for seemingly no reason, Brian discarded his cool dragon armor and turned this very cool Kurganesque villain into an entirely different character. First Born started as a rival to Vandal Savage ..and finished, as an animated hamburger.

    First Born was never the problem, and actually had more going for him, than most wonder-rogues - coherent backstory and motivation. The problem was how he was used in a story that Brian seemed to be making up, as he went along...and it was agonizingly slow.

    In different hands, the First Born, like too many other wonder-villains, wasted in badly executed stories, is an a-lister. He deserves another go, without all the vitriolic baggage of how we felt about the New 52.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 06-17-2020 at 06:07 AM.
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  11. #11
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    I liked him. But then again, I enjoyed all of Azzarello's run. I usually prefer WW with a secret identity, but this and Wonder Woman Earth One convinced me that one isn't necessarily necessary in the right hands.
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    The initial premise of the First Born, his Hyena-men and his alliance with Cassandra the Mad, with her wonder-powers and her flying Carrier - it was all so cool. It was. Basically, he was the Kurgan from Highlander teaming up with an evil Bionic Woman...what's not to LOVE?

    Then, he became the pork chop god of Pot Roast Mountain, I everything got bloody and gross. Basically, for seemingly no reason, Brian discarded his cool dragon armor and turned this very cool Kurganesque villain into an entirely different character. First Born started as a rival to Vandal Savage ..and finished, as an animated hamburger.

    First Born was never the problem, and actually had more going for him, than most wonder-rogues - coherent backstory and motivation. The problem was how he was used in a story that Brian seemed to be making up, as he went along...and it was agonizingly slow.

    In different hands, the First Born, like too many other wonder-villains, wasted in badly executed stories, is an a-lister. He deserves another go, without all the vitriolic baggage of how we felt about the New 52.

    His first design was too similar to Vandal Savage and then his second design made him look like a being made of burnt bacon.
    Currently Reading:Hawkman, Justice League, Justice League Dark, Legion of Super Heroes, Shazam, Wonder Woman, & Young Justice.

  13. #13
    The Last Dragon masterwitcher88's Avatar
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    I definitely got the Vandal Savage vibes from him but also... Mongul? Looking back at his origin and intro, it really wasn't that bad. Its not like Diana couldn't do without another brute like Character, I can only really think of Herakles.

    How he ended out, well... that was just embarrassing.

    He could defiantly use a helmet, maybe a body sash like He-man too.
    Zaldrīzes Buzdari Iksos Daor

  14. #14
    Incredible Member Amazon Swordsman's Avatar
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    Is there a way to make him work without Diana being directly tied to Zeus?

  15. #15
    The Last Dragon masterwitcher88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amazon Swordsman View Post
    Is there a way to make him work without Diana being directly tied to Zeus?
    Yes, I mean she doesn't need to be Zeus's daughter For First Born's origin to work.
    Zaldrīzes Buzdari Iksos Daor

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