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  1. #2236
    Incredible Member Goldrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    This isn't a bombastic or action-packed Superhero movie that people might be used to, and it may not have the concise and clear storytelling of the first film, but I felt this was overall a strong and thematically appropriate followup to the first Wonder Woman film and most definitely true to the heart of the character.

    I was really glad they were able to fit the Contest into the beginning of this movie, because it's probably the biggest part of Diana's origin that they skipped in the first movie, and it looked as epic as it deserves. Shame Diana didn't win, but it set up the lesson of not taking shortcuts and cheating to achieve what you want, as told by both of Diana's moms Antiope and Hippolyta.

    This definitely feels like a throwback movie in various ways. You can definitely see the Richard Donner Superman influences in terms of the romance and Diana's heroic exploits at the beginning as she saves the day and whisks off like Superman. They totally missed the perfect "Wonder Woman" namedrop during that news report, but I guess they want the first utterance on-film to be more special.

    So Diana saved the bride, but did she stop the shoplifters who knocked her over?

    I never expected Kristen Wiig as Cheetah, let alone playing the prominent antagonist of a Superhero movie, but I have to say she exceeded my expectations. She really captured the awkward, clumsy, yet heartfelt nature of Barbara Minerva from the start of the movie and how that contrast builds into her budding friendship with Diana, but she also just as effortlessly delivers on Barbara as she develops into Cheetah, a woman who embraces the excess of her femininity as she envies Diana/Wonder Woman and someone who you can understand why she would oppose the heroes even at the cost of her own humanity. She truly is Diana's rival, and not just because a wish gave her powers to match, and that all built into their climactic fight at the end where she becomes Cheetah. All things considered (especially with Catz as a comparison), I thought Cheetah looked pretty solid in the visuals department.

    I feel like this movie understood the humanity of the original Max Lord in the comics, a man who ultimately meant well even if he was a bit of a liar and manipulator, rather than the more villainous modern version who first became a foe for Wonder Woman. In doing so I felt the movie did a good job of crafting a charismatic yet relatable antagonist, and one who you partially want to see Diana redeem as she does at the end instead of a normal Superhero/Supervillain face-off. Pedro Pascal did a fantastic job of playing both Max Lord the larger-than-life persona and Max Lorenzano the very human man.

    Although it is kind of funny that once again Pedro Pascal is saved by being a father.

    Simon Stagg? I was half-expecting a Rex Mason cameo. Kind of random, but he definitely looked like Stagg.

    I loved the photos indicating Diana and Etta stayed friends up until Etta grew into an old lady and were involved in WWII together (?). I wonder if "Trevor Ranch" is something Diana came up with or where Steve's family lives?

    Kind of a minor thing but I actually like Diana working at the smithosonian. Like, it's not something you usually think of, but I feel like it fits her well and can do a good job of leading to adventures.

    I was happy to see Steve back and his and Diana's chemistry was as palpable as ever...just, y'know, kind of ignore the awkwardness of the whole "Steve's possessing some random dudes body who Diana then promptly has sex with." It's not a dealbreaker because I know the creator's heart was in the right place and the emotional drama of Diana reuniting with and then losing Steve again was still heartfelt, but I feel like that element might have needed a bit more of a once-over.

    So the Invisible Jet is a normal jet Diana kind of stole (?) and then used her Demigoddess powers to turn invisible. I guess she still has it at the end, too? Man, it was just awesome finally seeing the Invisible Jet in live-action.

    I did really like how they connected Diana's feelings and bond with Steve with her finally learning to fly.

    So the true villain was technically the Duke of Deception, even if it was more a long-term result from his meddling with humanity than any direct role in the plot. But it was pretty cool to see another Wonder Rogue involved in the plot, albeit in an off-handed, name-drop, way.

    The Golden Eagle armor looked as impressive as it was hyped up to be! It was also really cool to see that it emphasized defense instead of offense, a touch that I also appreciated with the lack of the sword and shield. Not once did I feel like Diana was missing anything from the lack of those weapons, and it led to so, so many cool Lasso feats. It was awesome.

    Lynda Carter turning out to be a legendary Amazon who inspired Diana was a terrific surprise and way of working her in. In-universe she still gets to be the original Wonder Woman whose spirit is carried on by Gal Gadot's Diana, and I just love that. Here's hoping they finally get to meet on-screen in WW3.
    I agree with every word you wrote.

  2. #2237
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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  3. #2238
    Incredible Member Amazon Swordsman's Avatar
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    I still think Snyder deserves some of the flack for the negative reception to the film. He laid the foundation for Wonder Woman to turn her back on humanity for a century after she left Themyscira, so she wasn’t going to be out in the open doing amazing feats of strength and skill so casually. It’s true that the first film had to kind of retcon that, because that’s just not who WW is as a character. But still, she was forced to be discreet about her heroism because of the DCEU continuity, even though some people are aware of her existence post WW1. It’s kinda confusing to think of Wonder Woman as a mere urban legend, especially after the events of 1984.

  4. #2239
    Fantastic Member Spencermalley935's Avatar
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    I thought it was a flawed but overall enjoyable and worthy follow-up to the previous Wonder Woman.

    I just hope Patty Jenkins will take notes on what worked and didn't work when she comes back to helm the third one.

  5. #2240
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Just watched it.

    I haven't been this disappointed in a sequel since Batman V Superman.

    Such a drop in overall quality from the original.

    So many unforced errors.

    Cheetah is a mere hench to a non-WW villain, who really isn't a villain. Their final fight is so poorly visible onscreen.

    The SFX were not consistent (HOW does this happen again after Justice League??).

    The issue of consent. Against Diana.

    The powers fading for most of the movie.

    A bloated 2.5 hours runtime.

    A pointless Lynda Carter cameo.

    Sigh. Maybe WW3 will be better.

  6. #2241
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Just watched it.

    I haven't been this disappointed in a sequel since Batman V Superman.

    Such a drop in overall quality from the original.

    So many unforced errors.

    Cheetah is a mere hench to a non-WW villain, who really isn't a villain. Their final fight is so poorly visible onscreen.

    The SFX were not consistent (HOW does this happen again after Justice League??).

    The issue of consent. Against Diana.

    The powers fading for most of the movie.

    A bloated 2.5 hours runtime.

    A pointless Lynda Carter cameo.

    Sigh. Maybe WW3 will be better.
    I don't think Cheetah was really a hench to Lord, their goals just aligned so she protected him and made sure he could carry out his plan plan and let her become more powerful.

    I don't know if I'd say the cameo was pointless since I think it kind of brought a certain part of the mythos together. It was mostly fanservice, but not the bad kind in my opinion.

  7. #2242
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    My problem with Asteria was that they did not think the cameo through. The story behind this alleged uber-warrior of the amazons that allegedly died to save the amazons from "the entire world" (wtf) has some plotholes and nonsensical details, and I am convinced that Asteria was just something the writers concocted haphazardly so they could shoehorn Lynda in the movie. Honestly, I would have preferred Ms Carter to play some sort of reporter or pop culture figure (maybe an Oprah-style talk show host?) that coined the name "Wonder Woman" to refer to Diana, this mysterious female crimefighter that some people whispered abaout.

  8. #2243
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FutureWonder View Post
    My problem with Asteria was that they did not think the cameo through. The story behind this alleged uber-warrior of the amazons that allegedly died to save the amazons from "the entire world" (wtf) has some plotholes and nonsensical details, and I am convinced that Asteria was just something the writers concocted haphazardly so they could shoehorn Lynda in the movie. Honestly, I would have preferred Ms Carter to play some sort of reporter or pop culture figure (maybe an Oprah-style talk show host?) that coined the name "Wonder Woman" to refer to Diana, this mysterious female crimefighter that some people whispered abaout.
    "Did not think it through" in the sense of what has she been doing while Diana's been busy doing her thing in Man's World?

  9. #2244
    Incredible Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amazon Swordsman View Post
    I still think Snyder deserves some of the flack for the negative reception to the film. He laid the foundation for Wonder Woman to turn her back on humanity for a century after she left Themyscira, so she wasnít going to be out in the open doing amazing feats of strength and skill so casually. Itís true that the first film had to kind of retcon that, because thatís just not who WW is as a character. But still, she was forced to be discreet about her heroism because of the DCEU continuity, even though some people are aware of her existence post WW1. Itís kinda confusing to think of Wonder Woman as a mere urban legend, especially after the events of 1984.
    I think blaming Snyder doesnt make sense. He came up with his intention for WW and Patty didnt like it so she changed it. It isnt up to him to please a director who hadnt been hired yet. 1984 is a Patty/Johns problem through and through.

    Quote Originally Posted by FutureWonder View Post
    My problem with Asteria was that they did not think the cameo through. The story behind this alleged uber-warrior of the amazons that allegedly died to save the amazons from "the entire world" (wtf) has some plotholes and nonsensical details, and I am convinced that Asteria was just something the writers concocted haphazardly so they could shoehorn Lynda in the movie. Honestly, I would have preferred Ms Carter to play some sort of reporter or pop culture figure (maybe an Oprah-style talk show host?) that coined the name "Wonder Woman" to refer to Diana, this mysterious female crimefighter that some people whispered abaout.
    My biggest problem with it is that they put it in there just for a glorified cameo instead of actually fleshing it out with a good flashback montage explaining the story. Astoria is still going around saving lives nonchalantly but gets rid of her armor? There couldve been an entire movie set around this armor and Barbara being the one who find it...but..ya know.
    Last edited by Primal Slayer; 01-04-2021 at 06:41 PM.

  10. #2245
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    My biggest problem with it is that they put it in there just for a glorified cameo instead of actually fleshing it out with a good flashback montage explaining the story. Astoria is still going around saving lives nonchalantly but gets rid of her armor? There couldve been an entire movie set around this armor and Barbara being the one who find it...but..ya know.
    Some of that might continue into the third movie but I could think of several reasons why she lost the armor.

  11. #2246
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    Saw WW84. Didn't hate it but certainly didn't love it. Overall I finished it feeling underwhelmed and disappointed. For me, I think it was because I was looking forward to seeing Diana doing amazing (pun not intended... Maybe?) feats of strength without the sword and shield overshadowing things but we didn't get that. Instead it felt more like a low grade Spiderman-ish type of movie.

    While this movie felt more Wonder Woman than the first one, visually brighter and Diana using her classic weapons (lasso, tiara, bracers) there is no denying that it was lacking. And that is unfortunate, because I wanted so much to see Wonder Woman being the formidable and compassionate powerhouse. While we got the compassionate aspect for the most part, we barely got the formidable powerhouse as she spent majority of the movie losing her power. I don't know if it is a result of the plot or lack of creativity in showcasing just how strong she is without her having to be beating up villains.

    Further, Diana is supposed to be a wise character, so having her character fall into bed with 'Steve' almost immediately without even first trying to determine what was going on and showing little to no regard for the man whose body Steve's "spirit"(?) was inhabiting felt both OOC and disturbing.

    Ultimately, I can only hope that the 3rd Wonder Woman movie installment takes corrective measures and doesn't overcorrect in the wrong direction. And please let it be in the present.

  12. #2247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Some of that might continue into the third movie but I could think of several reasons why she lost the armor.
    To be honest, I would love it so much if, when it's time to direct WW3, Jenkins totally ignores anything that reminds audiences of this film. Let her bring Diana into the present and give us the action-packed epic (Circe, please) that once again puts Gadot's Diana in audiences' good graces.

  13. #2248
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FutureWonder View Post
    To be honest, I would love it so much if, when it's time to direct WW3, Jenkins totally ignores anything that reminds audiences of this film. Let her bring Diana into the present and give us the action-packed epic (Circe, please) that once again puts Gadot's Diana in audiences' good graces.
    Agreed. I want this trilogy to end on a high note.

    And not to mention the Zeus thing. That's not what I EXPECT, but it's what I want.

  14. #2249
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    I'm going to just say it; there's something wrong with Zach Snyder. I mean mentally. Who does that? Damn, I'm glad that didn't make it into the final BvS cut, I'm with Jenkins on this, I really, really don't want to see serial killer Wonder Woman who keeps the heads of her victims in order to pose for the cameras with them.

    Yeah, maybe it was always meant to be a placeholder, but damn, they could have just put a picture of kittens or something, knowing it was going to be replaced.

    https://www.cbr.com/bvs-wonder-woman...d-heads-photo/

    On the whole, I'd say that cements my happiness that he's not going to be involved with the DCEU going forward.

  15. #2250
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    I just realised, handsome guy must have done self defence courses. Steve accesses his muscle memory while fighting Max in the White House.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    ďThe very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.Ē - the 4th Doctor

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