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  1. #1
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    Default Race And Ethnicity In The Wonder Woman Franchise

    A thread to discuss race and ethnicity in the Wonder Woman franchise. Examples of race being handled well, race being handled poorly and things you'd hope to see happen.

    I liked the character Akila in her original depiction as a scholar of the Bana-Mighdall. Her depiction in Rebirth however has been rife with unfortunate implications, from removing her academic skills to making her a villain and then killing her off twice. The Bana as a whole have had dodgy elements from inception but DC has only doubled down on the problems over the decades (as seen in this article https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/2...81#cmt91756080).

    All in all, other Bana besides Artemis (who arguably doesn't have to be white) should get more depth.

    Nubia is a character that didn't have the best introduction but can be fixed with some easy enough changes. She could be made into Philippus' daughter and (if DC ever gets to having Hippolyta and Philippus a couple, Diana and Donna's step sister). She'd be missing after being captured in a previous battle with demons from another realm and return to a very different world while dealing with PTSD.

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Here is the thing Amazons are the race. Not only that but the few examples we have or Nubia or Banas. That’s it l. I don’t like Earth one Steve being Black. Nubia is a easy fix. Both Nubia and Hippolyte made them. Both mixed their blood to create them and we have Nubia. Who has both fixed but has she grows up looks make like Phillppus. The Banas are suppose to be be the more extremist group. It’s not matter of race but what the Banas are suppose to symbolize. They didn’t need to change Etta or make her be in the military.

    With this whole Artemis being white. It does have to deal with her mother and father. Egypt has a long history of with the Greeks. There are pale Egyptian. She has had Tan skin.
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 08-11-2019 at 07:38 AM.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    The Banas are suppose to be be the more extremist group. It’s not matter of race but what the Banas are suppose to symbolize.
    That the more extremist group is the one full of black and brown women is the issue.

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    True. I wouldn’t mind if it was more diverse. I don’t think it was the same way with Perez. Was it? So should Artemis be black? Ethically where the Banas are they would probably be mixed with middle eastern and black. I often thought that it would make since if they also went to other parts of the Middle East like turkey. Since they can still be hidden. I don’t know I often thought of the idea of the Amazons want to retake land. Since some myths stated the Amazons has land in both Egypt and turkey it would make sense
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    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Well the original concept they were basically Greeks. So they all looked like that.

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    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    That the more extremist group is the one full of black and brown women is the issue.
    Could have relocated them to someplace whiter with paler dudes to propagate the group, I guess. Didn't really make sense for Themyscira to be especially diverse, given the original setup (all from a quite small geographical area), but that's changed since then. I don't really like the changes (well of souls & slain women, etc.), but it has changed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Could have relocated them to someplace whiter with paler dudes to propagate the group, I guess. Didn't really make sense for Themyscira to be especially diverse, given the original setup (all from a quite small geographical area), but that's changed since then. I don't really like the changes (well of souls & slain women, etc.), but it has changed.
    The original set up had a lot of things that were far less plausible than racial diversity.

  8. #8
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The original set up had a lot of things that were far less plausible than racial diversity.
    For me, it's all in-universe v. real-world plausibility. I don't care if it makes sense in the real world (super advanced tech, gods, a man can fly, a woman can deflect bullets, etc.) but I do care if it makes logical sense in-universe. Something driving me crazy about current storyline in Batman is that it doesn't. Racial diversity existing with the original Amazon backstory isn't a huge deal to me, but it something that does not make sense given the in-universe explanation of where they came from.

  9. #9
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    I think the concept of the Banas was always dumb. They slot into the violent middle easterners trope. Thinking back on it now, there actually isn't much of Perez's new stuff he brought to Wonder Woman I actually like.

    The real problem with how Amazons are treated though is that despite being characterized as a group of people who spend their time playing outside, few of them actually have tans. The reason why female beauty is often universally associated with white skin (this is true across the world in pre-colonial cultures) is because its a status symbol. The implication is that you, as a husband, are so wealthy you don't need to have your wife work. Unnaturally fair skin is a manifestation of patriarchal power and shouldn't be a thing for Amazons.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    For me, it's all in-universe v. real-world plausibility. I don't care if it makes sense in the real world (super advanced tech, gods, a man can fly, a woman can deflect bullets, etc.) but I do care if it makes logical sense in-universe. Something driving me crazy about current storyline in Batman is that it doesn't. Racial diversity existing with the original Amazon backstory isn't a huge deal to me, but it something that does not make sense given the in-universe explanation of where they came from.
    The original comics never explained where they came from in any real detail and the reboot have them as women who were raised from the dead so there isn't any reason why they'd all or mostly be white. Even if they'd come from Greece, not everyone in Greece was white due to immigration, trade and slavery. The Amazons being racially diverse isn't close to the strangest thing about them.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 08-11-2019 at 04:15 PM.

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    So should the Banas be done away with ? I don’t know I often liked the idea of there being more than one Amazonian tribe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    So should the Banas be done away with ? I don’t know I often liked the idea of there being more than one Amazonian tribe.
    No, just written better.

  13. #13
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    So should the Banas be done away with ? I don’t know I often liked the idea of there being more than one Amazonian tribe.
    There was a Golden Age story where Wonder Woman goes to the Gobi dessert and encounters a Mongol-Chinese Amazon-like society that use mirrors to keep their location hidden. Its a cool base to start with.
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  14. #14
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Well the original concept they were basically Greeks. So they all looked like that.
    I'm not buying that. For one, the Amazons as imagined by Marston and Peters—and later Pérez—certainly don't look like modern-day Greeks, much less ancient ones. For another, the original Amazons were probably not Greeks but Scythians, that is the peoples who lived on the north and east sides of the Black Sea. Central Asia, basically, but as they probably were nomadic to some degree, they would have lots of contacts with neighbouring areas. The areas of the eastern Mediterranean and Central Asia have always been huge cultural melting pots, and were arguably even more so in classical times.

    Basically, the Amazons has been thoroughly whitewashed.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I'm not buying that. For one, the Amazons as imagined by Marston and Peters—and later Pérez—certainly don't look like modern-day Greeks, much less ancient ones. For another, the original Amazons were probably not Greeks but Scythians, that is the peoples who lived on the north and east sides of the Black Sea. Central Asia, basically, but as they probably were nomadic to some degree, they would have lots of contacts with neighbouring areas. The areas of the eastern Mediterranean and Central Asia have always been huge cultural melting pots, and were arguably even more so in classical times.

    Basically, the Amazons has been thoroughly whitewashed.
    Two of the Amazons, Mala and Oranna, have names of Indian and Wiradjuri origin respectively so they clearly weren't all meant to be of Greek origin. Marston probably just picked Greek names because they sounded "foreign".

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