Wonder Woman 1984: Discussion, Set Leaks & Spoilers #WW84

[OrangeRangerPete]

I don't think the film expects us to feel an ounce of sympathy for the guy, but be more concerned with Barbara losing her empathy, but I can see why it'd not signaling to audiences that we should start to view her as seriously in the wrong.

I feel like that scene could've worked, but they were framing it all wrong.

Instead of framing the scene as, "Oh no, Barbara's turning evil!" -- because, like you said. The guy was a monster and who cares if one of his potential victims kicks him to death, he really had it coming -- I think it would've worked much better if the scene was more about Barbara enjoying her new-found power. The focus shouldn't have been that Barbara had begun her descent into villainy, but rather, she's overjoyed to have this power and not be a helpless victim anymore, but rather, is now capable of taking all the pain she's suffered (by being ignored by co-workers?) and inflicting it back on the people who hurt her.

I don't know, I feel like they were trying not to portray her as too evil, you know. Keep her as a sympathetic character who's capable of being redeemed, but that weakened her whole journey as a person, and it just came across as petty and trite.

[Largo161]

In the same way some folks are saying that Diana's "problems" in general are too much sword and shield.

Is it really the “same way” though?

I’ve heard people say they don’t like the sword and shield because it makes WW derivative of other characters...or because they overshadow her more famous tools...or because they make her appear too bloodthirsty. (I’m one of those people.) I’m not sure I’ve heard anyone say a story failed because Diana was depicted using the sword and shield.

But I guess...if they mean that much to you...

[Flash Gordon]

I enjoyed Aquaman a lot(though I felt it was a weaker film and it vibes more with a take on Arthur I'm not crazy about) but this is up there with Superman and Shazam (my two favorite DC films) for capturing the spirit of a character. I really dug it, though again, repeat viewings may get over the obvious honeymoon phase I'm in. I plan to watch it again tonight or tomorrow. Maybe I'll change my mind then.

I liked the first movie as well, or at least the first two acts of it! Third one is very uneven. That said, I agree, a vibrant color palette would absolutely not have worked given the subject matter but I'm grateful it wasn't repeated in the '80s, one of the most (practically offensively so) excessively colorful decades of all. Hell, in modern memory the decade is pretty much remembered for synth music and heavy neon colors.

OK so upon rewatch, I do think the movie plays a lot of things safe. I think it could have been bolder. I also would have liked a lil more neon, if I'm being honest. Especially reflecting off that golden eagle armour. That would have rocked. It's a good movie, but I think I was expecting something more avant garde (going off the posters and overall marketing). I think it's a strong sequel, as an entry into a long life well lived.

AQUAMAN, SHAZAM!, and BATMAN '89 are my favourite DC character flicks. I like both WW flicks a lot though, and the Ultimate Cut of BvS (Ben Affleck is THE Batman).

[Castling]

Totally agreed. The more I think about it the grosser that plot gets. Now we are going to get a lot of people shouting "Wonder Woman is a rapist".

Not sure I would consider Diana a rapist. Steve magically took up complete residence of the man's body. The movie doesn't suggest that there was some kind of inner struggle between Steve and his host body. So, it seems as though he was completely displaced. With Steve fully in charge, I don't see a consent issue.

[Castling]

Yikes. I just heard about that, and read this article. It brings up some interesting and valid points, though I do think calling it the "most racist movie of 2020" is a bit over the top.

I didn't think the film was racist at all. You'll find bad men in just about every culture, especially cultures where women are often treated as second class citizens. I think people are overreacting on that point.

[Castling]

I wondered if the Bialya thing has any connection with Black Adam--although he's in Kahndaq. On the D.C. map how do these two fictional nations determine to each other and to Egypt?

Only in the comics, I think. In the 52 maxi series, Black Adam murdered every living thing in Bialyia as revenge for the murder of his wife and her brother.

[Castling]

I really liked the first WW but yeah the colour palate was mute. That makes sense due to the context of the movie and the subject matter of the Great War. I'm glad this went a different way though, it felt very much like a new thing. It also left plenty of room for the WONDER WOMAN AND THE JSA in-betweenquel I want really badly.

I liked the invisible jet bit a lot, honestly. Loved the connection to Zeus. Dug her flight too. I agree that the body possession stuff was real questionable. I felt bad for the guy at the end who just didn't know where the hell he was for a few weeks. It seemed the stone worked off laws of probability though, so Steve wouldn't have been able to just appear in his own body again.

I'd have to watch it a few more times, but it's definitely up there for me. No where near AQUAMAN, but up there on that lil list in the sky ya know?

Steve's return reminded me of "Heaven Can Wait" where the protagonist can't come back in his body because it's been cremated. So, he has to body hop. But in that film, he takes over dead bodies, whereas in WW84, Steve has magically evicted the owner of his new body.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Not sure I would consider Diana a rapist. Steve magically took up complete residence of the man's body. The movie doesn't suggest that there was some kind of inner struggle between Steve and his host body. So, it seems as though he was completely displaced. With Steve fully in charge, I don't see a consent issue.

Its the implications, movies not thinking through that don't make actions like that not bad. That's the biggest problem with the movie I had, they really should have just gave him magic body rather than taking over a random person's. It's rape because the original person didn't consent, at no point in the story did the guy's consciousness intervene it's heavily implied he blacked out through the ordeal while he was possessed. He's like a coma patient. Steve being in charge is the problem, since ehe's a spirit inhabiting that body not the original owner - the original owner had no say.

[Castling]

Then they should get better writers for the scrip than geoff. He can't do WW world justice in the comics, and can't do it on film either. The way Cheetah was treated at the end, screams Cheetah's New 52 debut vs the justice league final battle. Underwhelming to say the least.

Geoff wasn't the only writer on this. Patty wrote it as well as Dave Callahan, who's writing Marvel's Shang-Chi film.

[Castling]

Sorry but it was full of cringe and old and dated stereotypes (a.ka. Barbara Minerva). The message at the end delivered with an embarrassingly juvenile tone. Also Gal Gadot saving Arab kids? It is next level meta propaganda.

Are you saying WW wouldn't save Arab kids?

[Castling]

The sworrd and shield are not even close to be comparable to the bracelets and lasso in terms of WW iconography.

And it doesn't matter if they don't know Xena. The point is sword and shield make her more generic and take attention away from her actual powers. I rather see WW use her legendary strength to toss a big giant aside, than see her use the sword to stab it. The former is more impressive and badass than the later to me. WW is supposed to be awesome and badass because of her own powers, not because of a sword. She is supposed to be very powerful because of her own power, and not an external thing like sword and shield.

In the films, it seems that the sword and shield have made Diana the swordsman who can't keep up with Steppenwolf, while Superman throws the haymakers and hefts whole apartment buildings. In the films, Diana is theoretically more powerful than Superman.
With Perez, the armor and shield and sword were only for special occasions. Most of the time she didn't need it.

[DochaDocha]

I'm paraphrasing the late Dwayne McDuffie (and probably paraphrasing badly), but if you're analyzing a scene that in no way, shape or form could happen in real life, it's probably not really productive getting appalled about how it compares to the real-world standards of consent.

[Lightning Rider]

I liked the initial exploration of Diana's loneliness, but I wish it hadn't just focused on Steve. They show pictures of her with an elderly Etta, but otherwise, the film makes it seem like Diana's spent the past several decades with nothing by Steve on her mind. Diana can want him back in her life without it making it seem like she has/had nothing else.

Yeah, this was a big turn-off for me. Obviously he is going to be important to her, but they do make it seem like she can't be happy without him.

[DisneyBoy]

I'm paraphrasing the late Dwayne McDuffie (and probably paraphrasing badly), but if you're analyzing a scene that in no way, shape or form could happen in real life, it's probably not really productive getting appalled about how it compares to the real-world standards of consent.

....when did Dwayne talk about magical circumstances invalidating rape in comics?

To me, it was rape. The Wonder Woman I read would have prioritized figuring out what happened to the soul of the man who was now possessed by Steve...not having sex with him.

Disgusting.


The movie had many problems, but that was a big one.

[DochaDocha]

....when did Dwayne talk about magical circumstances invalidating rape in comics?

To me, it was rape. The Wonder Woman I read would have prioritized figuring out what happened to the soul of the man who was now possessed by Steve...not having sex with him.

Disgusting.


The movie had many problems, but that was a big one.

It was about the JLU episode "Great Brain Robbery." People were complaining on his messageboard that Flash raped Tala.

Of course, you could also assume that there was nothing carnal about WW and Steve's interactions. That's another option for interpretation.