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  1. #2491
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Some of the costumes on display at WB's studio tour.






  2. #2492
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    A lot of the people who hate this film are absolutely viscous, like holy crap. I missed out on the dialogue regarding this film when this film was relevant, but I didn't realize how bad it was.
    #InGunnITrust, #ZackSnyderistheBlueprint, #ReleasetheAyerCut

  3. #2493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    A lot of the people who hate this film are absolutely viscous, like holy crap. I missed out on the dialogue regarding this film when this film was relevant, but I didn't realize how bad it was.
    Haha, yeah. I liked it well enough but the discourse about it was intensely vitriolic.

  4. #2494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimbo View Post
    Haha, yeah. I liked it well enough but the discourse about it was intensely vitriolic.
    In my opinion, WW84 deserves all the lashings. A movie with many plot holes. Where WW comes off as desperate for a man. Willing to steal another man's body to be with her lover. A movie where Cheetah's debut was treated like garbage. WW's power and action scenes were bad beyond words. Cheetah was also weak and useless.

  5. #2495
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    A lot of the people who hate this film are absolutely viscous, like holy crap. I missed out on the dialogue regarding this film when this film was relevant, but I didn't realize how bad it was.
    Yeah, the misogynistic hate machine on the Internet is sadly very easily started, and it destroys films that are otherwise fine (Ghostbusters 2016), makes it impossible to have a nuanced discussion of flawed films (Wonder Woman 1984) and can even cripple good films (Birds of Prey).
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  6. #2496
    Still only crumbs...... BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Yeah, the misogynistic hate machine on the Internet is sadly very easily started, and it destroys films that are otherwise fine (Ghostbusters 2016), makes it impossible to have a nuanced discussion of flawed films (Wonder Woman 1984) and can even cripple good films (Birds of Prey).
    I have got to disagree with you there. If it had been only a flawed movie, maybe we could have had a nuanced discussion as you put it. But this movie, coming out as a sequel to probably the best of the DCEU movies and crapping so spectacularly makes it impossible for me to have a discourse with people trying to justify the WW84 and that it wasn't as bad as we thought. Yes, it is as bad as most people think and there is more than just anecdotal evidence to suggest that.

  7. #2497
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiteTheBullet View Post
    I have got to disagree with you there. If it had been only a flawed movie, maybe we could have had a nuanced discussion as you put it. But this movie, coming out as a sequel to probably the best of the DCEU movies and crapping so spectacularly makes it impossible for me to have a discourse with people trying to justify the WW84 and that it wasn't as bad as we thought. Yes, it is as bad as most people think and there is more than just anecdotal evidence to suggest that.
    A movie where WW is so obsessed with a man. She is willing to have sex while he is in another man's body. Somebody who can not say yes or no. Almost willing to let the world go to hell because she wants to keep his past lover. Where WW and all her ''mighty'' power was shown in a bad choreographed circus scene against a badly CGI cat lady that looked like a mini weak boss from a PS2 game. Not a good movie at all, and gender had nothing to do with it.

  8. #2498
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    There are valid criticisms to be made about the film but people act like it's the worst thing that ever existed.

    If this was a movie for a dude superhero, I doubt the response would be so caustic. From what I recall, the advance reviews said it was decent, but once it released it felt like everyone was jumping on the bandwagon.

    I thought it was fine.

  9. #2499
    Still only crumbs...... BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimbo View Post
    There are valid criticisms to be made about the film but people act like it's the worst thing that ever existed.

    If this was a movie for a dude superhero, I doubt the response would be so caustic. From what I recall, the advance reviews said it was decent, but once it released it felt like everyone was jumping on the bandwagon.

    I thought it was fine.
    It isn't the worst thing that ever existed, but when compared to WW2017 it is resoundingly bad. I don't care if Patty Jenkins directs, but do not let her get near the script or have her write the 3rd movie. And get a great action choreographer for this movie because that was also a laughably bad part of the movie. Go to Hong Kong or wherever to get the 'John Wick' equivalent action maker.

    But, for me, this was a dud of a superhero movie. Sure, you have worse ones like Catwoman and Batman Forever or the FF4 remake, but WW2017 was a great movie (notwithstanding the 3rd act) and to be let down with WW84 is just.....embarrassing. Probably not getting the right emotions into what I am thinking.

    But many of the posters here try to say that either they loved WW84 or say it is not that bad, and I just don't get where they are coming from. Did we see the same movie? Did they really think the action was all that? They loved the amazing Spider-Woman in the mall scene? They loved Steve Trevor coming back in another persons body and didn't find it creepy? The wishstone which really didn't have a defined set of rules? There are more reasons to list, but that would take a while and we have pretty much heard the arguments before.

  10. #2500
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    Quote Originally Posted by BiteTheBullet View Post
    It isn't the worst thing that ever existed, but when compared to WW2017 it is resoundingly bad. I don't care if Patty Jenkins directs, but do not let her get near the script or have her write the 3rd movie. And get a great action choreographer for this movie because that was also a laughably bad part of the movie. Go to Hong Kong or wherever to get the 'John Wick' equivalent action maker.

    But, for me, this was a dud of a superhero movie. Sure, you have worse ones like Catwoman and Batman Forever or the FF4 remake, but WW2017 was a great movie (notwithstanding the 3rd act) and to be let down with WW84 is just.....embarrassing. Probably not getting the right emotions into what I am thinking.

    But many of the posters here try to say that either they loved WW84 or say it is not that bad, and I just don't get where they are coming from. Did we see the same movie? Did they really think the action was all that? They loved the amazing Spider-Woman in the mall scene? They loved Steve Trevor coming back in another persons body and didn't find it creepy? The wishstone which really didn't have a defined set of rules? There are more reasons to list, but that would take a while and we have pretty much heard the arguments before.
    I did like the mall scene :x I thought the wink at the little black girl and her grin back was the most Wonder Woman thing I've seen in live-action yet. I also found it icky and wish they just let the magic MacGuffin magically recreate his body. Ofc it doesn't have a defined set of rules but that's the case in most superhero/sci-fi/fantasy movies so it's not something that offended me haha.

    Did I like Diana not having moved on after how many decades? Of course not. Again, I'm not saying it was a great film. But I enjoyed it. But I'm not here to convince anyone of anything and I'm also not here to denigrate the creatives and film crew that worked hard as hell to make the movie happen. Which, back when it was released, is all I saw. A cesspool of negativity and calls to "cancel" Jenkins. Like, damn, it felt like there was no room for any sort of nuanced criticism or discussion of the film.

  11. #2501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimbo View Post
    I did like the mall scene :x I thought the wink at the little black girl and her grin back was the most Wonder Woman thing I've seen in live-action yet. I also found it icky and wish they just let the magic MacGuffin magically recreate his body. Ofc it doesn't have a defined set of rules but that's the case in most superhero/sci-fi/fantasy movies so it's not something that offended me haha.

    Did I like Diana not having moved on after how many decades? Of course not. Again, I'm not saying it was a great film. But I enjoyed it. But I'm not here to convince anyone of anything and I'm also not here to denigrate the creatives and film crew that worked hard as hell to make the movie happen. Which, back when it was released, is all I saw. A cesspool of negativity and calls to "cancel" Jenkins. Like, damn, it felt like there was no room for any sort of nuanced criticism or discussion of the film.
    Everything kind-of just echo's off of Twitter now, and Twitter is definitely not the platform for nuanced criticism or discussion.

    Plus, there's this whole problem with review channels in general, like channels that just write hate reviews to get more attention, and channels that do adult criticisms of kids movies...
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  12. #2502
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    Without the sex scene, the scene where she saves those kids from a country that is at war with the actress's own country, and with better fighting scenes with higher power level. This movie would have avoided a lot of heat. Sadly all it did is making me worry about ww3. I do not think jenkins and geoff have what it takes to create a big powerful spectacle ww.

  13. #2503
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    I finally had a chance to see the movie. I live in Germany, and I don't have HBO (or wherever this runs in streaming), and most movie theaters were closed when the movie was released. I'm not sure to what extent it was shown here at all. In my neighborhood is a small movie theater which shows movies in the original English language, and they just started showing WW84.

    I did read some of the comments here before going, but not all of the 100+ pages! And I may be spoiled, because I saw Black Widow (BW for short) just a week before.

    Pros:
    - Diana finally flies! (although I found it disappointing that she needed a man to tell her how)
    - the Invisible Plane makes an appearance
    - Lynda Carter makes an appearance (I'm sure that most viewers didn't know who she is)

    Cons:
    - the movie was simply too long. I noticed people checking their smartphones and reading news/mail/whatever during the show, so it seems they were bored. I don't take my phone to the theater, but I caught myself checking my watch multiple times, and I think I did this only once during BW.

    - the movie took itself and the characters way too serious. There was no witty banter like in BW, and the only funny thing I can remember was when Dr. Minerva ripped off the refrigerator door by accident.

    - the Amazons and Diana were preaching too much. This is supposed to be entertainment, not a sermon! A quote from the comics (either WW or Justice League - I don't remember) sums it up quite nicely. Diana touches another JL member (I think it was Flash) with the lasso, so he is forced to speak the truth, and he says: "Diana, you are beautiful, but the constant preaching gets old."

    - I never could feel much for the characters. Even when it looked like global nuclear war, I was like 'why should I care'. The only time I felt real sympathy for Diana was when she cried "Don't I deserve to be happy once?" (My answer: Yes - but you are a superhero, and Rule #1 of Superheroics seems to be that superheroes can't have a happy family life. ) I actually had more sympathy for Dr. Minerva.

    - Diana appeared too weak and passive after she regained her powers. A long time she just stands there, wrapped in the golden armor, looks anxious (or sad), and lets Cheetah rip the armor to shreds. And why had this fight to be in a low light setting? CGI not good enough to show Cheetah in bright sunlight?

    Some random thoughts:
    - Dr. Minerva as a mousy, clumsy nerd with glasses? Both the Perez and the Rucka version of Dr. Minerva show her as a quite competent and efficient archeologist. Like I said, I had a lot of sympathy for her (initially), and her wish 'to be like Diana'. And at the end, while Max Lord is at least reunited with his son, she's alone and probably hurt.

    - Shouldn't 'Diana Prince' be the nerd with glasses? In Marston's comic, she uses a similar disguise as 'Clark Kent' - different hairstyle and glasses. Gal Gadot always looks gorgeous, and is always dressed to the nines.

    - Steve has now twice sacrificed his life so that Diana can save the world. That's enough, really. He shouldn't even have died in the first movie IMHO. In Marston's comic, he is the character a male reader would identify with, so he can't die. Diana always saves Steve, same way as Superman always saves Lois Lane. What should I (as a male) take away from the WW movies? Never fall in love with a powerful woman, she will get you killed?

    - When Diana and Steve search Max Lord's office, she finds the remnants of the Dreamstone - the ring with the inscription. She sees that there is a cryptic inscription on the inside of the ring (very much like 'Lord of the Rings'!) and drops the thing like a hot potato. She recognizes 'this is the language of the Gods', but she can't read it? I thought she is supposed to read and speak any language? She can read the Maya glyphs in the book later well enough.

    Summary: compared to BW, WW84 sucks. Sorry. I'm glad that I had a chance to see it, but I won't go again (unlike the first WW movie, which I saw 2 or 3 times).

  14. #2504
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    Quote Originally Posted by hgzip View Post
    I finally had a chance to see the movie. I live in Germany, and I don't have HBO (or wherever this runs in streaming), and most movie theaters were closed when the movie was released. I'm not sure to what extent it was shown here at all. In my neighborhood is a small movie theater which shows movies in the original English language, and they just started showing WW84.

    I did read some of the comments here before going, but not all of the 100+ pages! And I may be spoiled, because I saw Black Widow (BW for short) just a week before.

    Pros:
    - Diana finally flies! (although I found it disappointing that she needed a man to tell her how)
    - the Invisible Plane makes an appearance
    - Lynda Carter makes an appearance (I'm sure that most viewers didn't know who she is)

    Cons:
    - the movie was simply too long. I noticed people checking their smartphones and reading news/mail/whatever during the show, so it seems they were bored. I don't take my phone to the theater, but I caught myself checking my watch multiple times, and I think I did this only once during BW.

    - the movie took itself and the characters way too serious. There was no witty banter like in BW, and the only funny thing I can remember was when Dr. Minerva ripped off the refrigerator door by accident.

    - the Amazons and Diana were preaching too much. This is supposed to be entertainment, not a sermon! A quote from the comics (either WW or Justice League - I don't remember) sums it up quite nicely. Diana touches another JL member (I think it was Flash) with the lasso, so he is forced to speak the truth, and he says: "Diana, you are beautiful, but the constant preaching gets old."

    - I never could feel much for the characters. Even when it looked like global nuclear war, I was like 'why should I care'. The only time I felt real sympathy for Diana was when she cried "Don't I deserve to be happy once?" (My answer: Yes - but you are a superhero, and Rule #1 of Superheroics seems to be that superheroes can't have a happy family life. ) I actually had more sympathy for Dr. Minerva.

    - Diana appeared too weak and passive after she regained her powers. A long time she just stands there, wrapped in the golden armor, looks anxious (or sad), and lets Cheetah rip the armor to shreds. And why had this fight to be in a low light setting? CGI not good enough to show Cheetah in bright sunlight?

    Some random thoughts:
    - Dr. Minerva as a mousy, clumsy nerd with glasses? Both the Perez and the Rucka version of Dr. Minerva show her as a quite competent and efficient archeologist. Like I said, I had a lot of sympathy for her (initially), and her wish 'to be like Diana'. And at the end, while Max Lord is at least reunited with his son, she's alone and probably hurt.

    - Shouldn't 'Diana Prince' be the nerd with glasses? In Marston's comic, she uses a similar disguise as 'Clark Kent' - different hairstyle and glasses. Gal Gadot always looks gorgeous, and is always dressed to the nines.

    - Steve has now twice sacrificed his life so that Diana can save the world. That's enough, really. He shouldn't even have died in the first movie IMHO. In Marston's comic, he is the character a male reader would identify with, so he can't die. Diana always saves Steve, same way as Superman always saves Lois Lane. What should I (as a male) take away from the WW movies? Never fall in love with a powerful woman, she will get you killed?

    - When Diana and Steve search Max Lord's office, she finds the remnants of the Dreamstone - the ring with the inscription. She sees that there is a cryptic inscription on the inside of the ring (very much like 'Lord of the Rings'!) and drops the thing like a hot potato. She recognizes 'this is the language of the Gods', but she can't read it? I thought she is supposed to read and speak any language? She can read the Maya glyphs in the book later well enough.

    Summary: compared to BW, WW84 sucks. Sorry. I'm glad that I had a chance to see it, but I won't go again (unlike the first WW movie, which I saw 2 or 3 times).
    I agree with a lot of this did you like cheetahs look

  15. #2505
    Still only crumbs...... BiteTheBullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hgzip View Post
    I finally had a chance to see the movie. I live in Germany, and I don't have HBO (or wherever this runs in streaming), and most movie theaters were closed when the movie was released. I'm not sure to what extent it was shown here at all. In my neighborhood is a small movie theater which shows movies in the original English language, and they just started showing WW84.

    I did read some of the comments here before going, but not all of the 100+ pages! And I may be spoiled, because I saw Black Widow (BW for short) just a week before.

    Pros:
    - Diana finally flies! (although I found it disappointing that she needed a man to tell her how)
    - the Invisible Plane makes an appearance
    - Lynda Carter makes an appearance (I'm sure that most viewers didn't know who she is)

    Cons:
    - the movie was simply too long. I noticed people checking their smartphones and reading news/mail/whatever during the show, so it seems they were bored. I don't take my phone to the theater, but I caught myself checking my watch multiple times, and I think I did this only once during BW.

    - the movie took itself and the characters way too serious. There was no witty banter like in BW, and the only funny thing I can remember was when Dr. Minerva ripped off the refrigerator door by accident.

    - the Amazons and Diana were preaching too much. This is supposed to be entertainment, not a sermon! A quote from the comics (either WW or Justice League - I don't remember) sums it up quite nicely. Diana touches another JL member (I think it was Flash) with the lasso, so he is forced to speak the truth, and he says: "Diana, you are beautiful, but the constant preaching gets old."

    - I never could feel much for the characters. Even when it looked like global nuclear war, I was like 'why should I care'. The only time I felt real sympathy for Diana was when she cried "Don't I deserve to be happy once?" (My answer: Yes - but you are a superhero, and Rule #1 of Superheroics seems to be that superheroes can't have a happy family life. ) I actually had more sympathy for Dr. Minerva.

    - Diana appeared too weak and passive after she regained her powers. A long time she just stands there, wrapped in the golden armor, looks anxious (or sad), and lets Cheetah rip the armor to shreds. And why had this fight to be in a low light setting? CGI not good enough to show Cheetah in bright sunlight?

    Some random thoughts:
    - Dr. Minerva as a mousy, clumsy nerd with glasses? Both the Perez and the Rucka version of Dr. Minerva show her as a quite competent and efficient archeologist. Like I said, I had a lot of sympathy for her (initially), and her wish 'to be like Diana'. And at the end, while Max Lord is at least reunited with his son, she's alone and probably hurt.

    - Shouldn't 'Diana Prince' be the nerd with glasses? In Marston's comic, she uses a similar disguise as 'Clark Kent' - different hairstyle and glasses. Gal Gadot always looks gorgeous, and is always dressed to the nines.

    - Steve has now twice sacrificed his life so that Diana can save the world. That's enough, really. He shouldn't even have died in the first movie IMHO. In Marston's comic, he is the character a male reader would identify with, so he can't die. Diana always saves Steve, same way as Superman always saves Lois Lane. What should I (as a male) take away from the WW movies? Never fall in love with a powerful woman, she will get you killed?

    - When Diana and Steve search Max Lord's office, she finds the remnants of the Dreamstone - the ring with the inscription. She sees that there is a cryptic inscription on the inside of the ring (very much like 'Lord of the Rings'!) and drops the thing like a hot potato. She recognizes 'this is the language of the Gods', but she can't read it? I thought she is supposed to read and speak any language? She can read the Maya glyphs in the book later well enough.

    Summary: compared to BW, WW84 sucks. Sorry. I'm glad that I had a chance to see it, but I won't go again (unlike the first WW movie, which I saw 2 or 3 times).
    Alot of what you say is true. I did find fault with the invisible plane because it was just so stupid how she made it inivisible. Because she thought she could, I guess. Plus, that jet must have had a range of 6000 miles or more, more than any jet known to mankind. Figures they take the one jet that can make the round trip back and forth on a full tank of gas that the museum conveniently filled up for them (entire sentence in sarcasm to those wondering).

    I liked the Lynda Carter cameo, it was a nice thing to show for a few minutes, nothing to distract from the movie. Although a distraction could have been a godsend, because when I first saw the movie on Christmas day, I also started looking at my watch and when this happens, you know a movie is on too long.

    She flies, but not convinced she isn't flying on air currents as described by Steve Trevor earlier in the film. It kind of makes Diana look stupid that she has to learn she can fly after 70 years from Steve and not by trial and error through jumping really high.

    Otherwise, pretty good summary.

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