Wonder Woman 1984: Discussion, Set Leaks & Spoilers #WW84

[DisneyBoy]

Oh Lord the whole final battle with Ares was weak. Even when they tried to shoot Gal to make her look like she was moving in slow motion and flying and slamming her bracelets together to zap him, you could see her wiggling as she moved up. You could see it on shows like Smallville too, when they tried to do slow motion effect and have the camera move around actors who are trying to keep perfectly still can't quite manage it. It's a lot harder on wire work. Inevitably an actor will wiggle in midair and you just have to hope the audience doesn't see it and thinks that they've actually slow down time.

Plus just the way Ares moved was terrible. I didn't like looking at him in close up much either, but it was pure video game for all of the wide angles.

[Agent 86]

I think the swinging by lightning bolts kind of dispels the no CGI in this film as some would imply. She probably means a combination of practical and CGI with more emphasis on the practical aspect.

Yes, that's what I was referring to. I didn't mean to mislead with my enthusiasm for more practical effects. So, for any "swinging by lightning bolts", Gal Gadot (or a stunt double) would actually be swinging on wires and then they'd remove the wires, add the background, add the storm / weather and add the lasso. As opposed to just using a CGI model of Gal Gadot / Wonder Woman as they seemed to do unnecessarily in the first film (e.g. the leap off the horse, the moment in the town square and the majority of the final battle).

[DochaDocha]

Oh Lord the whole final battle with Ares was weak. Even when they tried to shoot Gal to make her look like she was moving in slow motion and flying and slamming her bracelets together to zap him, you could see her wiggling as she moved up. You could see it on shows like Smallville too, when they tried to do slow motion effect and have the camera move around actors who are trying to keep perfectly still can't quite manage it. It's a lot harder on wire work. Inevitably an actor will wiggle in midair and you just have to hope the audience doesn't see it and thinks that they've actually slow down time.

Plus just the way Ares moved was terrible. I didn't like looking at him in close up much either, but it was pure video game for all of the wide angles.

Agreed that the final battle with Ares was terrible, for so many reasons.

As for wiggling in mid-air, I think it's fine. In animation, flying heroes tend not to be still in mid-air. If you play a game like DC Universe Online, a flying hero's idle animation has the hero looking like a fishing bobber in the water, because otherwise it'd look like an animation bug. Maybe that effect looks cheesy in ******action, but if you think of it as like a relic from animation, it's not so bad.

[Mysterious]

Agreed that the final battle with Ares was terrible, for so many reasons.

As for wiggling in mid-air, I think it's fine. In animation, flying heroes tend not to be still in mid-air. If you play a game like DC Universe Online, a flying hero's idle animation has the hero looking like a fishing bobber in the water, because otherwise it'd look like an animation bug. Maybe that effect looks cheesy in ******action, but if you think of it as like a relic from animation, it's not so bad.

Lol i just cant see whats different in ww cgi than other superhero movies. Her ares fight cgi was like any xmen or avengers cgi quality to me?!? Shrugs

[LordUltimus]

Lol i just cant see whats different in ww cgi than other superhero movies. Her ares fight cgi was like any xmen or avengers cgi quality to me?!? Shrugs

Mostly it sticks out because most of the rest of the movie had very limited cgi.

[DochaDocha]

Mostly it sticks out because most of the rest of the movie had very limited cgi.

I think DCEU movie generally have bad CGI. So, any time a DCEU movie can move away from CGI, I find that to be a move in the right direction.

[Frontier]

I liked the fight with Ares, honestly. It at least felt more memorable to me then the final fights in some MCU movies.

[Pinsir]

New WW84 Still:

Gal Gadot really is a great Wonder Woman.

[Celgress]

Gal Gadot really is a great Wonder Woman.

Indeed she is.

[FutureWonder]

Meh. All superhero movies have horrible final fights that rely way too much on CGI, especially when we are talking about superpowered characters fighting cosmic entities. The only recent superhero film that avoided this was Birds of Prey because all the characters are pretty much earthbound, which made the action feel grounded and truly bone-crunching. I loved it because all the fights were physical: actors/stunt doubles on set fighting other actors/stunt doubles. But everything from Iron Man, to Wonder Woman, to Black Panther to Endgame pretty much ends becoming an explosion of skybeams, fire in the sky, and weightless CGI figures battling other weigthless CGI figures. At least Wonder Woman had a fantastic amount of characterization and emotional resonance to compensate for the third act battle. I truly hope that Wonder Woman and Cheetah's fight scenes are more visceral and practical.

[DochaDocha]

Meh. All superhero movies have horrible final fights that rely way too much on CGI, especially when we are talking about superpowered characters fighting cosmic entities. The only recent superhero film that avoided this was Birds of Prey because all the characters are pretty much earthbound, which made the action feel grounded and truly bone-crunching. I loved it because all the fights were physical: actors/stunt doubles on set fighting other actors/stunt doubles. But everything from Iron Man, to Wonder Woman, to Black Panther to Endgame pretty much ends becoming an explosion of skybeams, fire in the sky, and weightless CGI figures battling other weigthless CGI figures. At least Wonder Woman had a fantastic amount of characterization and emotional resonance to compensate for the third act battle. I truly hope that Wonder Woman and Cheetah's fight scenes are more visceral and practical.

A lot of the fights in the genre are pretty blah, but I think the CGI in some of these movies have really improved. I still like the Hulk/Thanos fight. It was short and to the point, and even though they're weightless images on screen, there was something satisfying in seeing the punches land, like playing a good beat-em-up video game. And unlike scenes with stunt doubles in which we rely on camera angles to simulate a guy getting whacked in the face, there was no need to fake it in that scene.

That said, I think Hulk/Thanos fight worked well because it was short which kept the pacing good, and also short enough so they could spend a lot of time/money per second of animation instead of stretching the budget thin. When action sequences get drawn out for long intervals, they do get boring. I'm not fond of the Ares fight for various reasons, but I do think it's far better than watching the heroes take out an army of drones/robots/no-named villains during which there's essential no real danger to the heroes. That was fine in 2012 when we had little else to compare against, but now movie makers need to step up their game.

[kjn]

For myself, I think the Ares fight in the first Wonder Woman was fine, though it was partly as a result that one cared about the characters in the fight. There were elements in it that I'd have liked to see differences, especially the framing, but nothing too onerous.

I have far more quibbles with the fight in the Veld village square, where both Diana and the German soldiers all to often jump around without any discernable weight, the latter usually being tossed with the lasso. The engagement with the armoured car is especially cringy. Diana getting hit by the cannon, hitting the ground, and the runs towards the car is just badly done. The end phase where she grabs and tosses it upside down is really well done, however.

[Mysterious]

After watching Black Widow second trailer I wonder how Diana's combat skills as an expert will stand out from hers. The moves were pretty much the same in both their trailers. They will be competing hard at the box office. Hopefully not another dc vs marvel best female hero battle.

Patty really has to bring it

[FutureWonder]

So far, A Quiet Place Part 2, Mulan, No Time to Day, Fast & Furious 9, and The New Mutants have all been either postponed to a future date or indefinitely due to the spread of COVID19. The big question mark now is Black Widow and Wonder Woman 1984, the next two big blockbusters to open. I have a feeling that both will be postponed. There's too much at stake for Disney and WB to risk opening these major tentpoles in empty theatres.

[Pinsir]

So far, A Quiet Place Part 2, Mulan, No Time to Day, Fast & Furious 9, and The New Mutants have all been either postponed to a future date or indefinitely due to the spread of COVID19. The big question mark now is Black Widow and Wonder Woman 1984, the next two big blockbusters to open. I have a feeling that both will be postponed. There's too much at stake for Disney and WB to risk opening these major tentpoles in empty theatres.

It's an interesting dilemma because once the virus passes there will likely be a massive resurgence in theatre attendance just because of the drought in films. If WW holds the date and becomes the first major release in the year, its going to rake in so much money.

At the same time though, WB hasn't launched a major ad campaign yet so moving the date shouldn't be an issue, unlike a movie like Mulan which is probably going down as one of the biggest box office flops since Cleopatra because Disney already spent so much money on advertisement.