Your thoughts on 'Justice' by Alex Ross and Jim Krueger (2005 - 2007)

[Rod G]

well, instead of the legion of doom, the justice league could face an invading army of parademons and darkseid's elite from apokolips.

Sounds good.

It does have potential.

[phantom1592]

Sounds good.

It does have potential.

Yeah, my first exposure to Darkseid was Super Powers Galactic Guardians show... so a classic league vs Darksied… I'd be all for that!

[Ilan Preskovsky]

I would be down for a Justice sequel but I would much prefer it to be co-written or scripted by someone else. The art in Justice is spectacular and the basic story is fine but Ross is not a good enough writer to have done justice to the premise - and, no, nor is Krueger. He needs someone who can bring some spark to the dialogue and who can tighten the thing up At 12 issues it felt incredibly baggy to me.

[Güicho]

Yeah, my first exposure to Darkseid was Super Powers Galactic Guardians show... so a classic league vs Darksied… I'd be all for that!

Alex Ross definitely had an affinity for the Kenner Super Powers figure collection (minus of course Firestorm), which focused some on the Kirby New Gods / Darkseid and Apocalypse characters, which became the focus of the Super Powers incarnation of Super Friends. There was an image circulating of Ross' figure collection.

Also for those familiar would have instantly recognized his Justice companion book Secret Origins, characters, layout, and condensed origins, etc. was a straight homage to the comic strips of Super Powers carrying case interior:

Secret Origins Ross.jpg

Superpowers case Interior.jpg

[silly]

That would be a great follow up for Justice., seekng Alex Ross' take on Kirby's New Gods.

[liwanag]

[liwanag]

Justice can somewhat be taken as a prequel to Kingdom Come, as this was the world and heroes they had lost to a more dark cynical modern era that follwed it.

If there is a story to tell between them, it's somewhat hinted at in KC, the events and coming of new attitude and vision of "heroes" that people want as grim-dark cynical vigilantes. The sequel is pretty much the world Superman walks away from at the start of KC.

would justice work as prequel for kingdom come? i asked because hal jordan (and maybe barry allen) may not exist in the kingdom come universe. or do they?

[superduperman]

would justice work as prequel for kingdom come? i asked because hal jordan (and maybe barry allen) may not exist in the kingdom come universe. or do they?

Kingdom Come has always been vague about that sort of thing. On purpose. We know that the Flash in that universe is a combination of all the Flashes and that it's been implied, but as far as I've seen, not stated outright, that the GL of that universe is supposed to be Alan Scott. The reason for this, as my understanding, is that Ross wanted to use the classic versions of those characters but DC wanted it to be more of a potential future for their current universe at the time. And Wally and Kyle were the respective Flash and GL then. So Allen was sort of the compromise. Notice also the Jor-El and Lara in the Fortress in Justice are the pre-Crisis versions while they are the post-Crisis versions in KC. I suppose if you stretch it you could argue it is. Hal might exist in the universe but he clearly isn't on Earth anymore. JSA stated that Power Girl was Superman's cousin in that universe so I always kind of saw KC as a sort of updated version of Earth 2. Obviously if it's a future version of the post-Crisis Earth, PG couldn't be his actual cousin. It's designation number is even Earth 22.

[caj]

Kingdom Come has always been vague about that sort of thing. On purpose. We know that the Flash in that universe is a combination of all the Flashes and that it's been implied, but as far as I've seen, not stated outright, that the GL of that universe is supposed to be Alan Scott. The reason for this, as my understanding, is that Ross wanted to use the classic versions of those characters but DC wanted it to be more of a potential future for their current universe at the time. And Wally and Kyle were the respective Flash and GL then. So Allen was sort of the compromise. Notice also the Jor-El and Lara in the Fortress in Justice are the pre-Crisis versions while they are the post-Crisis versions in KC. I suppose if you stretch it you could argue it is. Hal might exist in the universe but he clearly isn't on Earth anymore. JSA stated that Power Girl was Superman's cousin in that universe so I always kind of saw KC as a sort of updated version of Earth 2. Obviously if it's a future version of the post-Crisis Earth, PG couldn't be his actual cousin. It's designation number is even Earth 22.

I always assumed that Flash was Wally based on one scene - it was either in issue 2 or 3 where you see Dick, Donna, Roy, Garth, and the Flash in a circle talking about the current situation. It just seemed like too much of a coincidence and it was nice that they would still be close and represent the original Teen Titans.

I also assumed that Green Lantern was Alan Scott, but nothing I can specifically point to for assuming that.

[superduperman]

I always assumed that Flash was Wally based on one scene - it was either in issue 2 or 3 where you see Dick, Donna, Roy, Garth, and the Flash in a circle talking about the current situation. It just seemed like too much of a coincidence and it was nice that they would still be close and represent the original Teen Titans.

I also assumed that Green Lantern was Alan Scott, but nothing I can specifically point to for assuming that.

In the trade, it says in the character bios in the back that the Flash is an amalgamation of all the different Flashes. And he is openly referred to as Wally in Convergence, though whether or not that counts is up for debate. GL is never directly stated to be Scott. But I think I read something somewhere that stated he was. In the last issue of JSA featuring the KC Superman we see Hal at Batman's funeral. Though if he's taking over for Alan or just came back to Earth for the funeral is up for debate. The backstory for KC has never been clear. There are so many characters in that book with so many backstories we don't know.

[adkal]

Kingdom Come has always been vague about that sort of thing. On purpose. We know that the Flash in that universe is a combination of all the Flashes and that it's been implied, but as far as I've seen, not stated outright, that the GL of that universe is supposed to be Alan Scott. The reason for this, as my understanding, is that Ross wanted to use the classic versions of those characters but DC wanted it to be more of a potential future for their current universe at the time. And Wally and Kyle were the respective Flash and GL then. So Allen was sort of the compromise. Notice also the Jor-El and Lara in the Fortress in Justice are the pre-Crisis versions while they are the post-Crisis versions in KC. I suppose if you stretch it you could argue it is. Hal might exist in the universe but he clearly isn't on Earth anymore. JSA stated that Power Girl was Superman's cousin in that universe so I always kind of saw KC as a sort of updated version of Earth 2. Obviously if it's a future version of the post-Crisis Earth, PG couldn't be his actual cousin. It's designation number is even Earth 22.

I always assumed that Flash was Wally based on one scene - it was either in issue 2 or 3 where you see Dick, Donna, Roy, Garth, and the Flash in a circle talking about the current situation. It just seemed like too much of a coincidence and it was nice that they would still be close and represent the original Teen Titans.

I also assumed that Green Lantern was Alan Scott, but nothing I can specifically point to for assuming that.

In the trade, it says in the character bios in the back that the Flash is an amalgamation of all the different Flashes. And he is openly referred to as Wally in Convergence, though whether or not that counts is up for debate. GL is never directly stated to be Scott. But I think I read something somewhere that stated he was. In the last issue of JSA featuring the KC Superman we see Hal at Batman's funeral. Though if he's taking over for Alan or just came back to Earth for the funeral is up for debate. The backstory for KC has never been clear. There are so many characters in that book with so many backstories we don't know.

Other than it being outlined in the Revelations booklet (and ignoring the novelisation), there are a number of clues to Green Lantern being Alan Scott:

- his ring is different to Hal's
- the positioning of Jade on the cover of issue 3 reflects his position on the cover of issue 2
- his powers are a tad more flame-based (see issue 3 when he sends the message to the satellite, and the battle scenes at the beginning of issue 4)
- his vulnerability to wood (Oliver pierces his armour with arrows (issue 4))
- Jade trying to shield him (issue 4)
- Jade and GL holding each other as they float into the UN building

[DrNewGod]

I always assumed that Flash was Wally based on one scene - it was either in issue 2 or 3 where you see Dick, Donna, Roy, Garth, and the Flash in a circle talking about the current situation. It just seemed like too much of a coincidence and it was nice that they would still be close and represent the original Teen Titans.

I also assumed that Green Lantern was Alan Scott, but nothing I can specifically point to for assuming that.

In the trade, it says in the character bios in the back that the Flash is an amalgamation of all the different Flashes. And he is openly referred to as Wally in Convergence, though whether or not that counts is up for debate. GL is never directly stated to be Scott. But I think I read something somewhere that stated he was. In the last issue of JSA featuring the KC Superman we see Hal at Batman's funeral. Though if he's taking over for Alan or just came back to Earth for the funeral is up for debate. The backstory for KC has never been clear. There are so many characters in that book with so many backstories we don't know.

I always wondered if the details about Flash and GL were bolted on later. Just looking at the art, I assumed they were avatars meant to simultaneously represent all of the iconic versions of their respective characters.

[superduperman]

One of the reasons we never got a formal sequel was that Waid and Ross couldn't agree on what kind of DCU KC takes place in. Obviously Ross would want something closer to the pre-Crisis universe but I don't know what Waid would want. Ross seemed fine with the additions Johns made to him in JSA, such as making PG his cousin.

[phantom1592]

Other than it being outlined in the Revelations booklet (and ignoring the novelisation), there are a number of clues to Green Lantern being Alan Scott:

- his ring is different to Hal's
- the positioning of Jade on the cover of issue 3 reflects his position on the cover of issue 2
- his powers are a tad more flame-based (see issue 3 when he sends the message to the satellite, and the battle scenes at the beginning of issue 4)
- his vulnerability to wood (Oliver pierces his armour with arrows (issue 4))
- Jade trying to shield him (issue 4)
- Jade and GL holding each other as they float into the UN building

The story that I heard was that Ross wanted Hal Jordan. However during that time Hal was both evil and dead and DC refused to let Hal get propped up while they were pushing Kyle as the 'new thing'... and Ross didn't want Kyle at all. So he 'officially' used Alan, but made it vague enough that it was 'pretty much' Hal.


(going off old memories right now)

-The corps symbol was used on his cufflinks.

- The corps symbol on the JLA table

-His station was 'New Oa'

-It's purpose was to protect the earth from extraterrestrials.

There was a lot of debate at the time. in the actual story itself as to which it should have been... but the official answer did turn out to be Alan. But it really was more of a combination 'best of both worlds' that he went with.

[Cmbmool]

It was a great tale and a great take on the Superfriends cartoon. How they used the Joker in the story was a very intriguing way and it also make me want to see them do a Plastic Man vs Elongated Man one-shot tale in the future.