Ollie is in distress

[Rise]

Nightwing who has been the best selling from the batfamily line is under 30k already and I have a feelings the double shipping will only make it worse with the increase in the price. So, the batfamily line isn't doing well either.

The problem like I said multiple times already goes beyond the characters because there only very few are selling well enough who have either movies or big name writers on them. There was a report from last year that manga are outselling (destroying in their own words) DC and Marvel sales in America which should be alarming enough sign.

DC ideas of trying to reach a biggger readership with new imprints and trying to sell comic in game and walmart shops is already good start, but I have talked to new readers who give up on comics and the reasons were: incomplete stories, confusing histories and inconsistent art (which I have a big problem with myself because comics are visuals and having bad art will definitely make you less likely to bother with them). So, try find a solutions for these problems and people might give comics a chance.

[Carabas]

Let’s go along with assumption that DC need a solution for “whole line”...doesn’t that support idea of trying something radical and new with GA, rather than just doing stuff that’s been done dozens of times before?

No, because they have done that and it didn't help, so now they're trying back to basics.

The problem isn't the character. The problem is comics and how they are published and distributed in America.

[CaptCleghorn]

But as Trey has pointed out a time or three, none of that means GA is selling well.

I’m surprised that practically nobody is prepared to consider a significant change to character itself.

Even those that admit to a problem with sales are suggesting the same old gubbins..relaunch with a new number one, tie-in with Batman, new creative team.

All been done before, and usually end with GA hoovering near cancellation. The old Einstein quote applies: “Insanity: doing the same thing and expecting different results”.

This is another Trey Strain about making stuff sell. What he sees as problems may very well be problems for DC. They may be concerned with sales on Green Arrow, or they may very well be happy with keeping him as he is at the current sales level. It's not for us to dictate what DC's problems are and how they should go about 'fixing" them. What guidelines about Ollie exist because of the TV show?

As to changing a character drastically, many of thoise plans have failed as well. Remember the super-powered Blackhawks, or the super-powered Challengers of the Unknown? Or the de-powered Wonder Woman? One can look at a character who has had a long history as king of the B-listers and consider Einstein;s definition in terms of changing that.

Threads talking about how we'd like to change a character are fun. Threads assuming we're professional publishers while only having a fraction of the data are delusional.

I like Ollie. I like his SJW attitude and his moral inconsistencies. While looking back on his 3/4 of a century of stories as well as a weekly live action TV show, we can get a lot to pick and choose from. Do we go with a darker mature reader slant, or a kid friendly version with multiple trick arrows? Demographics on the CW shows would help a lot here.

[JackDaw]

The problem isn't the character. The problem is comics and how they are published and distributed in America.

How can you know that if the characters are regarded as sacrosanct and never changed??

Many of DC's characters were created 70 or 80 years ago, geared to a set of world conditions and style of comics that are light years aways from today. It's amazing that so many of them have retained ability to sell in good numbers, Batman, Superman, etc.

But a shed load of others don't sell that well...yet no one dares to alter them, update them for the modern world.

That makes the overall DCU more and more unbalanced....the reader is forced to suspend disbelief more and more, with less and less help from the writers. More and more readers drift away because of that...because more and more characters don't really fit in with the story style and setting.

Let me give a recent non DC example of the problem. I've recently finished reading Jonathan Hickman's Avengers/ New avengers run. It was a big sprawling epic storyline that was fairly well written. It had mega powerful protagonists and antagonists...and Hawkeye (a normal human with bow and arrow) and Captain America (a "peak" human...but no more) went into battle after battle...and never got anything worse than a scratch. It grated after a while...many people will tell me "that's comics"...but in any other genre, it would be crap writing. And you know what...I think it's crap writing even in super hero comics.

Keep GA as he is...and it means you restrict readership to readers that will swallow "whopper after whopper". Change him a bit..and more readers may become interested. And you can do that without changing personality or backstory.

How have we got to point that it's regarded as daft in super hero comics to write characters in line with their assigned powers??

[Carabas]

How can you know that if the characters are regarded as sacrosanct and never changed??

They aren't and they have changed to be almost unrecognisable, and back again. Including Green Arrow.

[JackDaw]

They aren't and they have changed to be almost unrecognisable, and back again. Including Green Arrow.

Has he? Give me chapter and verse of extended run when GA had super powers...happy to give it a read.

Changing the characters powerset works quite often....comics is littered with examples.

GA’s powerset hasn’t made any sense for the last 20 years (being generous)...his comics aren’t selling well right now (again being generous)...I’m surprised that tackling the powerset isn’t worth considering.

Put it this way..when Geoff Johns amps up powers of practically all the main Flash villains, it’s regarded as an “act of genius”...doing the same with GA really isn’t that different.

[Trey Strain]

This is not a matter of accepting mediocre sales for Ollie, or of doing something that will raise the sales of all of DC's titles. It's a matter of Green Arrow is about to be canceled. When someone points out that the house is on fire, you don't change the subject, do you? The imminent cancellation of Green Arrow is the subject.

Something has to change. I think the best thing is to team him with Batman in Detective Comics, which would boost the sales of Green Arrow. But Jack is right that something about the comic itself needs to change too. I don't know about giving him super-powers, but something has to change.

[caj]

The imminent cancellation of Green Arrow is the subject.

Something has to change. I think the best thing is to team him with Batman in Detective Comics, which would boost the sales of Green Arrow. But Jack is right that something about the comic itself needs to change too.

I would love a good mystery.

Perhaps have Roy disappear. No one knows where he is. Was he kidnapped? Murdered? Did he relapse? Was he chasing or tracking down a villain?

Have this play out over a year. Where is Roy? Ollie finds clues along the way. Dinah and Dick - maybe even Hal - show up in issues to help out. He even consults with Batman.

Something like this, which is wrapped around a mystery over someone we care about. Just a thought.

[DevilBat66]

Put some Monkeys or Gorillas on the cover every couple months and we're golden.

[Trey Strain]

I would love a good mystery.

Perhaps have Roy disappear. No one knows where he is. Was he kidnapped? Murdered? Did he relapse? Was he chasing or tracking down a villain?

Have this play out over a year. Where is Roy? Ollie finds clues along the way. Dinah and Dick - maybe even Hal - show up in issues to help out. He even consults with Batman.

Something like this, which is wrapped around a mystery over someone we care about. Just a thought.

That sound fine, for starters.

[Carabas]

Has he? Give me chapter and verse of extended run when GA had super powers...happy to give it a read.

Being able to shoot six arrows at six different targets at the same time is not a superpower now?

But seriously, why would you want Green Arrow to have superpowers?
Do you want Nightwing, Black Widow, the Punisher, Jonah Hex... to have superpowers too?
Do you want superpowered character with low sales to get even bigger superpowers?

Give Green Arrow superpowers you you lose whatever audience he has for next to zero gains.

GA’s powerset hasn’t made any sense for the last 20 years...

Neither has Batman's. Neither has Superman's.

[skyvolt2000]

The characters are a massive selling feature in super hero comics.

The Bat family works..so leave them alone.

Most of the rest don't.

If idea of updating those other characters to make them more relevant to their modern setting is ruled out (which effectively seems the line on this thread of everybody except Trey and me)...then what option remains??

What is your preferred solution??

Informing stores to start QUANTITY control instead of over ordering books-your goal is to sell book not stock pile a dollar bin or overpriced back issue bin.

Understand there are too many ways to get a comic beyond the comic book store.

Accept Ebay is eating away at business lust as much as anything else.

Accept the trade market is a factor as we have seen HATED books destroy books like Dc's Rebirth in sales.

Stop trying to force folks to accept the same set of guys. I don't need a 100 page DC book with only Superman, Batman, WW and their selected friends in it. I know folks who would NEVER touch that book and a lot of them are kids. There is a reason kids went nuts over Static, Ms Marvel ,Miles & Moon Girl.

Tell your staff to leave the Silver Age love at HOME-they need to accept the fact not everyone likes a Hal or Barry-burying or trashing John Stewart or Wally West will not change that.

Discover who works better as a one shot or OGN at $10-12 and restrict them to that. I do not need a monthly GA book. Nothing is wrong with a combo of 3 one shots (48 pages) an d 3 novels is fine.


Tell certain factions to stop attacking books that they would never read. There is NO excuse for a witch hunt towards a book you are not reading-that includes harassing creators, fans or whatever.

A Green Arrow book has not bearing on a Harley book. Because everyone else sees that behavior and lose interest.

I don't need opinions of Green Arrow by those who never read it. With all the ways to read it for free

[Frontier]

On the positive side, I think Green Arrow still outsells basically any Hawkeye book Marvel has put out over the last few years, and Ollie's not even in a movie .

[married guy]

Ollie doesn't need super powers! As has already been mentioned, Grell's run was great, and he was NEVER portrayed as a super hero.
In fact, he wasn't called Green Arrow ONCE!!
He works best as the only regular guy in the room.
Surrounded by super-powered aliens, gods, kings & of course, Bat-God - Ollie is the one guy who's there to give the little people a voice.
I think that's why the New 52 relaunch bombed so hard.
It took away everything recognisable as Oliver Queen.


I always thought Ollie would be a good fit as the leader of a team like the Outsiders.

[Raijin]

I'm so glad that fans don't make creative decisions for DC. It'll be terrible ideas all around. I can see it already. Giving Green Arrow superpowers is one of the WORST ideas ever. You give Ollie powers, he automatically loses his appeal. Not up for debate. We like Oliver because he's an underdog. He is someone people overlook but not someone you should underestimate. And for a guy who's 'powerset doesn't make sense' he sure does pretty well in a universe with demons, aliens and other huge threats.

Out of all the absurdity in comics, that bothers you? Weird. Might as well give Shang-Chi, Katana, Black Widow, Punisher, Nightwing and Winter Soldier some powers because they don't make any sense. The non-powered archer who has held his own without superpowers needs superpowers. Wow.


Edit: Looking at these posts and reading the Green Arrow series. The current arc reads like meta-commentary to me now.