Kill Doom To Keep The 616 From Secret Wars?

[jackolover]

Could you have averted the Incursions if you had gone back in time and killed Dr Doom?

The only one it could be who could do it is Dr Strange, because no one on Earth knew who the Great Destroyer was, except Stephen. My feeling is, Strange could have remembered the Time Machine from the Savage Land in Age Of Ultron, and gone there, travelled back in time and removed Doom so Victor couldn’t meet Molecule Man and start Incursions.

The only problem is the Paradox. Stephen would never have found out about Incursions unless they had already started, and if you start Incursions, the rule is, they cannot be reversed by Time travel? We reversed the destruction of Earth by the Phoenix in Iron Age HC by Time travel. We reversed the destruction of Earth in Age of Ultron with Time travel. So why couldn’t we reverse Secret Wars with Time travel by killing Doom at the appropriate time?

[KOSLOX]

Killing Doom wouldn't have ended the incursions. It would have ensured the Beyonders detonated the entire Multiverse without obstacle.

While Dooms actions caused a cascade effect, he still ruined the Beyonders initial plan, and ultimately provided a means to recover what was thought lost.

[Haquim]

Your logic escapes me: Doom's actions were what stopped the beyonders from detonating the whole multiverse. And Doom discovered what needed to be done because Mr Fantastic warned him not to get involved with them. Problem is they were trying to win the game (stop the incursions), something that could not be done, and if it were possible it would have led to disastrous consequences (the whole of reality being erased in one big explosion). Doom decided he had better not to lose it (save a part of reality from complete anihilation) and acted accordingly, ruining the beyonder's great experiment and ultimately defeating them. Killing Doom before he becomes Rabum Alal would have ultimately ensured the complete destruction of the multiverse instead of saving a small part of it.

[Rosebunse]

I think part of Hickman's story was that there probably was a way of surviving the Incursions and saving the multiverse. Maybe it did involve killing Doom at some point.

But it was never going to come to pass because the heroes weren't getting their shit together. They were too busy trying to do their own things rather than actually finding that solution.

Doom had his shit together and saved everyone because of it.

[JudicatorPrime]

Funny thing about time travel. Why just stop there? Why not go back even further before the Beyonders were ever made aware of the 616 multiverse? Sise-Neg and others have all travelled back to the dawn of time. He could have easily made a simple diversion; a pit stop. Strange wouldn't need to travel back in time, he just has to reach out to Sise-Neg. Given their combined magical prowess and intel, none of this story happens. (But perhaps a far worse omniverse-threatening disaster does.)

[Michael Watkins]

Why do people believe that the incursions would be the end? All of these characters have died or been unmade before. The same God that saved the FF from Doom would save the 616. They are the favored experiment. Instead a monster like Doom is given credit for a makeshift hellscape.

[XPac]

Funny thing about time travel. Why just stop there? Why not go back even further before the Beyonders were ever made aware of the 616 multiverse? Sise-Neg and others have all travelled back to the dawn of time. He could have easily made a simple diversion; a pit stop. Strange wouldn't need to travel back in time, he just has to reach out to Sise-Neg. Given their combined magical prowess and intel, none of this story happens. (But perhaps a far worse omniverse-threatening disaster does.)

The butterfly effect of time travel can sometimes create scenarios where the cure is worse than the discease. Granted there's probably not a whole lot of things worse than the Beyonders destroying the multiverse... so this is a scenario where it might be worth the risk. But generally speaking if you can resolve things without changing history, you're probably better off doing that.

[jackolover]

Killing Doom wouldn't have ended the incursions. It would have ensured the Beyonders detonated the entire Multiverse without obstacle.

While Dooms actions caused a cascade effect, he still ruined the Beyonders initial plan, and ultimately provided a means to recover what was thought lost.

Your logic escapes me: Doom's actions were what stopped the beyonders from detonating the whole multiverse. And Doom discovered what needed to be done because Mr Fantastic warned him not to get involved with them. Problem is they were trying to win the game (stop the incursions), something that could not be done, and if it were possible it would have led to disastrous consequences (the whole of reality being erased in one big explosion). Doom decided he had better not to lose it (save a part of reality from complete anihilation) and acted accordingly, ruining the beyonder's great experiment and ultimately defeating them. Killing Doom before he becomes Rabum Alal would have ultimately ensured the complete destruction of the multiverse instead of saving a small part of it.

Sorry for the late replies guys.

A lot of this all depends on some wording by Hickman on when the Molecule Men all explode destroying the Multiverse. As I understand it, and correct me if I’m wrong, the Incursion process only got started 14 years ago Marvel time, (at the first appearance of Owen Reece in FF#20). But, the Beyonders had set the Molecule Men to simultaneously explode 25 years Marvel time after the Reece’s were implanted. That means there is still 11 years Marvel time left from today before the Reece’s all explode if nothing was done by Rabum Alal. So killing Doom in the past forestalls Multiverse collapse for another 11 years Marvel time, and allows the heroes to formulate some process against that from happening.

But that’s just esoteric reasoning, because Secret Wars 2015 has more to do with what Marvel wanted to do with ANAD. I’m just looking at reversing ANAD.