Grant Morrison's T-shirt and Jeans Superman Returns.

[Sacred Knight]

With all that said I could very much see his role in this particular title end ambiguously. I'm not saying I need to see him be raring to go in a new role in the pages of Sideways, of course. He flies off into unknown or something as people have suggested and that's that for a while. Just the set-up that he's around till the major stuff hits.

[superduperman]

If he's just some lost entity that has no place in the real multiverse, then he's killed off or something, DC's out of their mind if they think that'll suit as a "proper sendoff". All it will do is piss his fans off all over again for no good reason. He already had a sendoff. It had its major flaws of course but Last Days was the story where he died heroically. Doing it again is not an apology, its rubbing salt in the wound.

If they have absolutely no plan for him, they should have left well enough alone. So hopefully there's more of a reason why they brought him back than that. I'm still hopeful, what with this stuff conveniently happening in what I still see as the obligatory "Countdown" period before the full on Crisis.

Didio has a soft spot for New 52 since it was his idea so I don't necessarily think they're going to kill him off. My guess is he'll send him off to his universe to be set aside for some future use. But the real question is, will anyone besides Didio ever use him? This seems more an excuse to say to fans "Hey, he's still out there!"

[Sacred Knight]

Depends on what the future holds. If he's just out there in the ether there's really no reason to use him outside of your occasional Superman story like Multiplicity, as a rough example. If Didio ever wants to go back and explore a rebooted world, which I think is still a desire of his, then I could easily see him being the starting point to that, just like Utimate Peter jumpstarted the Ultimate verse.

[Ascended]

Depends on what the future holds. If he's just out there in the ether there's really no reason to use him outside of your occasional Superman story like Multiplicity, as a rough example. If Didio ever wants to go back and explore a rebooted world, which I think is still a desire of his, then I could easily see him being the starting point to that, just like Utimate Peter jumpstarted the Ultimate verse.

I think if that's in the cards at all, it'll depend on how well the annual sells and what kind of hype it generates. And the best case scenario, far as I can tell, is that Nuperman is left out there "somewhere" so he can show up for the occasional Crisis splash page. I'd be amazed if we got more than that. I mean, I hope I'm totally wrong and next month DC announces a t-shirt Superman book. I just don't think we're that lucky.

Didio is the guy who gave us the New52, but he's also the guy who threw an overly complicated retcon at us just because Jurgens nagged him into bringing Jon into the main canon.

And Final Days got a ton of hate and heat from us Nuperman fans. We were not at all happy about how that transition played out, and I doubt any of us have come to enjoy that story any more than we did two years ago, even if we've enjoyed the stuff we've gotten since. I wouldn't be surprised if this was DC trying to give us a sendoff for the character that doesn't totally piss us off. Is it really just rubbing salt in the wound? Maybe. But do we think DC is able to pick up on that, or are they tone-deaf enough to think we wanted this?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I am seeing a lot of overthinking in this thread. There's no other motives behind this story aside from making a fun comic for fans of this Superman to enjoy.

I am just happy to be able to read about this version of the character again by the creator who started and did him best.

[LordUltimus]

I am seeing a lot of overthinking in this thread.

Hi, welcome to the internet.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Hi, welcome to the internet.

Ha! Definitely.

[DragonPiece]

And either way, I am sure Didio is reading all the excitement about new 52 superman returning and is taking note, regardless of what happens to this version in side ways. Money talks at the end of the day, so I recommend supporting the annual and this past issue of sideways if you want to make a statement to DC.

[Sacred Knight]

If I had the opportunity to attend the big cons, the next one I'd commission someone to do a Flash of Two Worlds cover pastiche, with Earth-0 and New 52 Superman.

[superduperman]

Now all they have to do is bring back the pre-Crisis Superman and we can have the League of Supermen!

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Now all they have to do is bring back the pre-Crisis Superman and we can have the League of Supermen!

SOLD!

[JAK]

I think if that's in the cards at all, it'll depend on how well the annual sells and what kind of hype it generates. And the best case scenario, far as I can tell, is that Nuperman is left out there "somewhere" so he can show up for the occasional Crisis splash page. I'd be amazed if we got more than that. I mean, I hope I'm totally wrong and next month DC announces a t-shirt Superman book. I just don't think we're that lucky.

Didio is the guy who gave us the New52, but he's also the guy who threw an overly complicated retcon at us just because Jurgens nagged him into bringing Jon into the main canon.

And Final Days got a ton of hate and heat from us Nuperman fans. We were not at all happy about how that transition played out, and I doubt any of us have come to enjoy that story any more than we did two years ago, even if we've enjoyed the stuff we've gotten since. I wouldn't be surprised if this was DC trying to give us a sendoff for the character that doesn't totally piss us off. Is it really just rubbing salt in the wound? Maybe. But do we think DC is able to pick up on that, or are they tone-deaf enough to think we wanted this?

Was is Jurgens nagging him into it, though? I recall Jurgens saying he brought up the idea as part of the "5 years later" thing, and they (DC/Didio/Johns/Etc) ultimately decided to go the "Rebirth" route with Jon instead. (which really strikes me as a Johns thing, imo).

That said, I'd love for that Superman's fans to have an outlet for him, even if it's not a favorite of mine, personally.

I am seeing a lot of overthinking in this thread. There's no other motives behind this story aside from making a fun comic for fans of this Superman to enjoy.

I can't say I blame them, though - it's exactly the same boat I was in around the time of "Convergence," and I was saying almost exactly the same things (I didn't buy it initially because I figured they were going to kill "my" Superman off and piss me off even more).

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I can't say I blame them, though - it's exactly the same boat I was in around the time of "Convergence," and I was saying almost exactly the same things (I didn't buy it initially because I figured they were going to kill "my" Superman off and piss me off even more).

I dunno, I just don't get the reasoning behind superhero fans sticking themselves into silos in which they seem to care only about one specific flavor of a character they love and getting all worried because of an upcoming story featuring that exact flavor of Superman might actually do something with him that is written by the same guy who created that version of Superman. This is a moment for celebration and excitement, not a time for worrying about what might happen to him. He's Superman. He'll save the ^%&ing day, of course, because that's what Superman does.

I like Superman. Period. Underwear. No underwear. Tights. T-shirt & jeans. Dad. Married. Single. The only thing that really matters is whether the stories are good.

With the notable exception of Morrison & Pak's stuff, the New 52 Superman was either a creative misfire or simply classic Superman in an overly-complicated costume. It was the same deal with the Pre-Flashpoint Superman stories, most of which were also not that good.

Look, I can sympathize with fans of the New 52 Superman. I spent almost two decades with a Superman whose character arc seriously consisted of being born on Earth, being raised by Kents who allowed him to use his abilities to become a popular high school football star and didn't die so Clark could get advice whenever his otherwise perfect yuppie life as the world's most powerful and admired superhero was causing him some minor inconvenience, who rejected his alien heritage, died punching a Hulk knockoff to death, got resurrected with a *&$#ing mullet by the very same alien heritage he'd rejected, then married the smartest and most gorgeous woman he knows. Wow. What a compelling character arc! I am shocked that Batman so easily overtook Superman in popularity during this period

But, you know something, despite all my problems with the Post-Crisis Supeman, he was still Superman. There were still so many great stories told with him. I didn't view the other versions of Superman I preferred more to be completely distinct characters that wasn't the guy appearing in Superman comics every week fighting Bloodsnot or whomever and finally deciding to check out Van Halen in 1995. Superman is Superman. The specifics of his status quo and history may change, as they always have, but the character remains the same.

I'm not worried about what's going to happen to the T-shirt & jeans Superman because he's in good hands. Morrison isn't going to rub salt in anyone's wounds because he understands something about the character that few creators do. Superman isn't going anywhere. Superman is never-ending idea that cannot be stopped by corporate edicts, legal wrangling, editorial mismanagement or mediocre storytelling.

Superman is.

[JAK]

I dunno, I just don't get the reasoning behind superhero fans sticking themselves into silos in which they seem to care only about one specific flavor of a character they love and getting all worried because of an upcoming story featuring that exact flavor of Superman might actually do something with him that is written by the same guy who created that version of Superman. This is a moment for celebration and excitement, not a time for worrying about what might happen to him. He's Superman. He'll save the ^%&ing day, of course, because that's what Superman does.

I like Superman. Period. Underwear. No underwear. Tights. T-shirt & jeans. Dad. Married. Single. The only thing that really matters is whether the stories are good.

With the notable exception of Morrison & Pak's stuff, the New 52 Superman was either a creative misfire or simply classic Superman in an overly-complicated costume. It was the same deal with the Pre-Flashpoint Superman stories, most of which were also not that good.

Look, I can sympathize with fans of the New 52 Superman. I spent almost two decades with a Superman whose character arc seriously consisted of being born on Earth, being raised by Kents who allowed him to use his abilities to become a popular high school football star and didn't die so Clark could get advice whenever his otherwise perfect yuppie life as the world's most powerful and admired superhero was causing him some minor inconvenience, who rejected his alien heritage, died punching a Hulk knockoff to death, got resurrected with a *&$#ing mullet by the very same alien heritage he'd rejected, then married the smartest and most gorgeous woman he knows. Wow. What a compelling character arc! I am shocked that Batman so easily overtook Superman in popularity during this period

But, you know something, despite all my problems with the Post-Crisis Supeman, he was still Superman. There were still so many great stories told with him. I didn't view the other versions of Superman I preferred more to be completely distinct characters that wasn't the guy appearing in Superman comics every week fighting Bloodsnot or whomever and finally deciding to check out Van Halen in 1995. Superman is Superman. The specifics of his status quo and history may change, as they always have, but the character remains the same.

I'm not worried about what's going to happen to the T-shirt & jeans Superman because he's in good hands. Morrison isn't going to rub salt in anyone's wounds because he understands something about the character that few creators do. Superman isn't going anywhere. Superman is never-ending idea that cannot be stopped by corporate edicts, legal wrangling, editorial mismanagement or mediocre storytelling.

Superman is.

No, I get all that. For a long time, I was the same way - and for the most part I still am. But New52 felt different to me, and so did MoS. To me, this felt like the embodiment of everything Didio/WB/etc felt would correct what was "wrong" about the character. Part of that was how they marketed him in the beginning. I wasn't against a reboot - but by the time it hit, I *was* against *this* reboot. I'm not a huge fan of SR or Smallville, either, and with SR I felt some of what I mentioned earlier. But New52 and MoS were still different. Didio/Lee/etc took pot shots at "my" Superman (the first one I got hugely into as a character and not just "oh cool, there's another Superman") and presented theirs as the "better" model instead of just "resetting the universe to explore a new generation for Superman" (which I'd have been fine with if that was the marketing). What's worse is that they said this would "fix the shipping delay problems" and it actually got worse for awhile after the reboot. Everything (to me, anyway) smacked of a cheap stunt and that version of the character and his crazy armor costume came to represent all of it to me (aka: everything DC doesn't "get" about their own character). Which I know isn't fair to that character, but my reaction is as much on them as anything.

Much as they did, from what I'm told, to the Pre-Crisis Superman when COIE was done. Which, while I definitely enjoyed the way the Superman stories were told just before and during the Triangle Era, was as stupid for them to do then as it was to do in 2011. I do have specific retorts on a few of the story points you bring up, but I'll leave those for now to keep the focus here.

So in general, I'd agree with you. The Reborn Superman is some mix of many things, kind of an attempt to "align" everything (or as best as could be done, given the framework). But much of the odd splintering we've seen is unique to these various versions for a lot of different reasons. So I still get why they feel the way they do, as I felt the same. And having felt that way, I wouldn't wish it on any fellow fan. They all deserve "their" Superman, as well as whatever version is the new flavor variant. (if that makes any sense).

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I do have specific retorts on a few of the story points you bring up, but I'll leave those for now to keep the focus here.

Feel free to start another thread about this if you want, I LOVE retorts