Grant Morrison's T-shirt and Jeans Superman Returns.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Seriously why can't we keep the New 52 origin instead of the dull Johns one?

Because the Johns one sells better in trades? Also, that the admit-ably flawed Johns origin is more all inclusive of so many different elements from across the character's history. That said, again, Secret Origin is just the spine, not the whole body. There's plenty of room for Birthright Lex, Morrison's Jeans & T-Shirt crusader, and much, much more.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Now if we can only get Kal-L back...

Patience.

[manofsteel1979]

Because the Johns one sells better in trades? Also, that the admit-ably flawed Johns origin is more all inclusive of so many different elements from across the character's history. That said, again, Secret Origin is just the spine, not the whole body. There's plenty of room for Birthright Lex, Morrison's Jeans & T-Shirt crusader, and much, much more.

At this point we really don't need an iron clad origin. All of them work for the current guy. Just pick your favorite, then say a bunch of stuff happened, he died and came back, some more stuff happened, he got married and had a kid, a bunch of more stuff happened and Bam..the guy in the books now.

In my head it all happened. Supes has had a weird timey whimey life.

[superduperman]

Because Johns is in control, and Johns only keeps what he personally likes.

Which is the real problem. One creator getting complete control even if someone else has a better idea. Superman's origin is always going to be a bone of contention among fans and I don't think there is any way to make everyone happy. So the real question is, what do the majority of fans want and how many of them actually care about his origin? If the majority of fans don't really care one way or another then Johns may very well get to do whatever he wants. I think they should just cut their losses and go back to the pre-Crisis version and move forward from there. Changing it from that was what created this divide in the first place. And, creatively, there are so many possibilities. Plus, they've brought back so many elements from it anyway may as well make it official.

[superduperman]

I'm not following this book but I'm glad New 52 Supes is still out there in the multiverse for his fans.

Now if we can only get Kal-L back...

Now, if Johns wants to get back into people's good graces, this is the best thing he could do!

[Netherman14]

Which is the real problem. One creator getting complete control even if someone else has a better idea. Superman's origin is always going to be a bone of contention among fans and I don't think there is any way to make everyone happy. So the real question is, what do the majority of fans want and how many of them actually care about his origin? If the majority of fans don't really care one way or another then Johns may very well get to do whatever he wants. I think they should just cut their losses and go back to the pre-Crisis version and move forward from there. Changing it from that was what created this divide in the first place. And, creatively, there are so many possibilities. Plus, they've brought back so many elements from it anyway may as well make it official.

Maybe MTG is right, and Johns has way less control. but I fear he won't give up until Superman's lore consists only of stories he has written, based on the Donnerverse movies.

[superduperman]

Maybe MTG is right, and Johns has way less control. but I fear he won't give up until Superman's lore consists only of stories he has written, based on the Donnerverse movies.

It depends on how deeply his influence on Superman goes. What are the odds Barry Allen's mother will ever come back to life?

[Vordan]

Because the Johns one sells better in trades? Also, that the admit-ably flawed Johns origin is more all inclusive of so many different elements from across the character's history. That said, again, Secret Origin is just the spine, not the whole body. There's plenty of room for Birthright Lex, Morrison's Jeans & T-Shirt crusader, and much, much more.

Does it? Interesting if true, do you have a source? I’ve been meaning to compare the sales of Johns, Waid, and Morrison’s origins.

[manofsteel1979]

I think at the moment Bendis has far more control over Superman than anyone at DC, including Johns.

Beyond helping set up Rebirth and MAYBE having a hand in the Reborn arc that merged the Supermen,I don't think Johns has had that much influence on Superman since he left the Superman book shortly before Truth.

[Vordan]

I think at the moment Bendis has far more control over Superman than anyone at DC, including Johns.

Beyond helping set up Rebirth and MAYBE having a hand in the Reborn arc that merged the Supermen,I don't think Johns has had that much influence on Superman since he left the Superman book shortly before Truth.

I agree somewhat. DC is clearly giving Bendis the freedom to do what he wants with the line. Johns still has some control thanks to Doomsday Clock though. However I don’t think this extends to him setting limits on what Bendis can and can’t do.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

At this point we really don't need an iron clad origin. All of them work for the current guy. Just pick your favorite, then say a bunch of stuff happened, he died and came back, some more stuff happened, he got married and had a kid, a bunch of more stuff happened and Bam..the guy in the books now.

In my head it all happened. Supes has had a weird timey whimey life.

Exactly. Superman's life has never been normal and will never be normal. Crazy, time shenanigans, parallel Earths, alien invasions, wizards, demons, and 5th dimensional imps are his normal.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Does it? Interesting if true, do you have a source? I’ve been meaning to compare the sales of Johns, Waid, and Morrison’s origins.

The question mark was there for a reason

I have no idea which origin story sells better in trades, but that'd be my guess and helped inform DC's decision when it came to deciding on an origin to use as the spine to wrap this amalgamated Superman onto.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I think at the moment Bendis has far more control over Superman than anyone at DC, including Johns.

Beyond helping set up Rebirth and MAYBE having a hand in the Reborn arc that merged the Supermen,I don't think Johns has had that much influence on Superman since he left the Superman book shortly before Truth.

Definitely. Bendis is the one steering the ship right now and he very smartly chose to NOT retell the origin again, because the last thing Superman needs is yet another origin after DC had already introduced three perfectly decent origin stories over the past 15 years. The vague "almost everything happened if you squint a bit" history introduced in the aftermath of Superman Reborn was good enough to use and, if Bendis wants to, he can certainly fill in the blanks here and there with his own stuff if he wants later on.

Bendis seems to understand that the problem with Superman wasn't figuring out what his origin was, but figuring out what to do with him in the present day. Since Jurgens and Tomasi had managed to make the new status quo of older wiser family man work, there was no reason for Bendis to reboot or retcon anything further. All the Superman line needed was a singular vision guiding it after too many years of editorial meddling, mismanagement and indecision leading to creative confusion.

Putting a creator with as much clout and talent in charge of the books, while also bringing the books back to a monthly schedule seems to have paid off creatively and financially so far. I think the monthly sales are relatively unchanged from the Jurgens/Tomasi era, but Bendis will no doubt do stronger digitally and in trades.

[Vordan]

The question mark was there for a reason

I have no idea which origin story sells better in trades, but that'd be my guess and helped inform DC's decision when it came to deciding on an origin to use as the spine to wrap this amalgamated Superman onto.

I’ve been trying to track down sales over time but it’s been a pain. Honestly I’d quite like to know the sales numbers for each origin myself.

Definitely. Bendis is the one steering the ship right now and he very smartly chose to NOT retell the origin again, because the last thing Superman needs is yet another origin after DC had already introduced three perfectly decent origin stories over the past 15 years. The vague "almost everything happened if you squint a bit" history introduced in the aftermath of Superman Reborn was good enough to use and, if Bendis wants to, he can certainly fill in the blanks here and there with his own stuff if he wants later on.

Bendis seems to understand that the problem with Superman wasn't figuring out what his origin was, but figuring out what to do with him in the present day. Since Jurgens and Tomasi had managed to make the new status quo of older wiser family man work, there was no reason for Bendis to reboot or retcon anything further. All the Superman line needed was a singular vision guiding it after too many years of editorial meddling, mismanagement and indecision leading to creative confusion.

Putting a creator with as much clout and talent in charge of the books, while also bringing the books back to a monthly schedule seems to have paid off creatively and financially so far. I think the monthly sales are relatively unchanged from the Jurgens/Tomasi era, but Bendis will no doubt do stronger digitally and in trades.

Digitally he’s been doing great so far, even managed to take the top spot at times. MoS did alright in trades, but not amazing. Be interested if his “proper” Superman trades do better, and especially interested in whether Superman or Action sells better in trades.

[superduperman]

I’ve been trying to track down sales over time but it’s been a pain. Honestly I’d quite like to know the sales numbers for each origin myself.

I don't think it's that simple. New 52's Superman's origin is scattered among a number of books. Whereas Johns origin is collected into one. With New 52 you have the complete Morrison run and the one Pak wrote for the SO series which collected a bunch of other character's origins as well. This is I think the biggest difference between DC and Marvel. With Marvel, everything counts to some degree or another. Barring something like Iron Man where they outright changed his origin from Vietnam to Iraq or Afghanistan. Compare this to DC where they are still publishing books that aren't canon anymore. Like Batman Year One or the Return of Superman. Half of ROS couldn't have happened now because it was so directly tied to his post-Crisis origin. SO might be selling only because it is the easiest to come by as far as books go in comparison with other versions. When was the last time you saw Birthright in stores?