Grant Morrison's T-shirt and Jeans Superman Returns.

[Sacred Knight]

I still say it is, without any competition whatsoever, the best post-Crisis Superman origin ever. Johns definitely screwed up by asserting his power and putting his generic story back in. But, DC could fix it if they give the origin to another version of Superman.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I still can't believe DC dropped that origin. It was amazing, worked perfectly well, had layers, provided the groundwork for future stories involving many aspects of the mythos, etc.

Though to quibble, I believe Clark ended up wearing the t-shirt for about a year before he switched to the armor full time.

Six months from his debut to the first issue of 52 Action (with the Zero Year hurricane happening towards the start of this period). At least a few weeks, if not a few months, during that full arc (Clark retired for a time in there too, once the public began to push back against his methodology) and then he spent some time wearing the t-shirt while in Metropolis, and wearing the armor only for big threats or when working with the League.

I just read the first few issues and it is six months. In Action Comics #1 they say that Superman has been running around as an urban legend for six months. A couple issues later, he gets the armor, which takes place a week after Action #1

I can't comment on how often he wore the jeans and t-shirt after that, but I think from that point on, he should be wearing the classic suit.

[Lvenger]

His reduced power set and t-shirt costume didn't last very long in the New 52 continuity. I don't think he'd been in Metropolis even a year before his powers took a leap and he got a costume. I don't think returning it to continuity would upset any apple carts, he'd obviously not behave the same way in the present (younger, just-starting-out Superman should not act exactly the same way as adult, married Superman who is a father) and they could just tweak it so he gets his more traditional costume instead of the New 52 armor when he first confronts Brainiac.

The fuller powerset thing is just my personal preference. I'd say the bigger issue would be reconciling the rougher more aggressive social crusader Superman with the older calmer traditional Superman. That never worked in the New 52 when writers chose to write New 52 Superman closer to his classic personality. I did like or at least respect how Morrison wrote Jeans & T-shirt Superman even if I didn't agree with all his actions and dialogue but Morrison's origin doesn't fit with the character's direction anymore. There's no connection between the two versions nor indication that Jeans & T-shirt Nuperman could become the classical Superman.

[Lvenger]

I'm pretty sure it's not. Sideways is a character built from alternate reality stuff (the dark multiverse) and Nuperman, with one or two minor exceptions, no longer happened in continuity. So this is almost certainly a t-shirt Superman from some kind of Hypertime tangent or dark multiverse reality or World Forge bubble or something.

If the dark multiverse is where dead worlds go to be recycled, and reality was re-written during Reborn to merge Superdad and Nuperman, then what we're looking at is probably the "cast off" history that Reborn discarded.

That's a good prediction, it's likely that this version of the character is part of the failed worlds in the Dark Multiverse whose world has been lost when Sideways shows up. Knowing Morrison, he could treat this Superman as the leftovers of his version of the character lost outside the Multiverse when New 52 and Rebirth versions of Superman merged together.

[SiegePerilous02]

I still can't believe DC dropped that origin. It was amazing, worked perfectly well, had layers, provided the groundwork for future stories involving many aspects of the mythos, etc.

I can't either. Aside from tweaking it so that he gets his classic costume aboard Brainiac's ship instead of the New 52 armor, they could have left it as is. It was pretty close to perfect. I haven't read Birthright, but it absolutely blows SO and Byrne's MoS out of the water.

Sidebar, I also wish the transition between New 52 and Rebirth eras had been Clark and Diana breaking up, and a timeskip by a few years to show Clark and Lois married and Lois pregnant, and Clark having his classic costume back. It would have been less headache inducing. We may have missed out on Damian having a playmate but I would have rather seen Jon's birth and go along on the journey with Clark and Lois as they became new parents and raised their new son in their crazy ass world and the effect it has on their marriage. I'm thinking something along the lines of Saga.

The fuller powerset thing is just my personal preference. I'd say the bigger issue would be reconciling the rougher more aggressive social crusader Superman with the older calmer traditional Superman. That never worked in the New 52 when writers chose to write New 52 Superman closer to his classic personality. I did like or at least respect how Morrison wrote Jeans & T-shirt Superman even if I didn't agree with all his actions and dialogue but Morrison's origin doesn't fit with the character's direction anymore. There's no connection between the two versions nor indication that Jeans & T-shirt Nuperman could become the classical Superman.

Nuperman was already the classical version, his Golden Age roots were very apparent. It doesn't get more classical than that. I feel like the passage of time is enough to explain how a young man in his 20s would grow up to be a man in his 30s who is more mature and wise. Wisdom comes with age, due to life experiences like being a professional superhero for over a decade and being in a committed relationship. He was already learning that his rougher approach wasn't solving things in the long run. If the origin doesn't fit in the current direction but Johns's lackluster SO DOES...I think there is a flaw in the current direction. It shouldn't be that difficult to allow it to fit.

[RepHope]

The fuller powerset thing is just my personal preference. I'd say the bigger issue would be reconciling the rougher more aggressive social crusader Superman with the older calmer traditional Superman. That never worked in the New 52 when writers chose to write New 52 Superman closer to his classic personality. I did like or at least respect how Morrison wrote Jeans & T-shirt Superman even if I didn't agree with all his actions and dialogue but Morrison's origin doesn't fit with the character's direction anymore. There's no connection between the two versions nor indication that Jeans & T-shirt Nuperman could become the classical Superman.

He changed with age. Seems simple enough. A lot of people are different in their 30s and 40s than they were in their 20s. Especially married people. And it’s not like “classic” Supes never fought rascists, crime-lords, or showed off his angry side.

[Ascended]

I just read the first few issues and it is six months. In Action Comics #1 they say that Superman has been running around as an urban legend for six months. A couple issues later, he gets the armor, which takes place a week after Action #1

I can't comment on how often he wore the jeans and t-shirt after that, but I think from that point on, he should be wearing the classic suit.

Do they state that it was only a week passing from "hanging Glenmorgan off a building" to "fighting the Collector?" Then I stand corrected, I don't recall them establishing that firm a timeframe. But it's been years since I read it now.

[Kuwagaton]

I still say it is, without any competition whatsoever, the best post-Crisis Superman origin ever. Johns definitely screwed up by asserting his power and putting his generic story back in. But, DC could fix it if they give the origin to another version of Superman.

It's also the longest by a full 7 issues. Which I think makes it one of the best Superman runs in years, but also a pretty terrible thing for the line as it was. No one really knew how to use Superman during that year and a half, the disconnect in how he was written and drawn in other books was outstanding. It really would have helped if he wrote Superman after his big story, bringing us up to speed. Which is like the same problem Birthright had, except Superman was already underway and the writers were free to pick up or ignore those elements. As well as the successors sometimes did it shouldn't have been nearly that hard to pick up the ball and run with it. It shouldn't be "downhill" after the beginning.

[RepHope]

It's also the longest by a full 7 issues. Which I think makes it one of the best Superman runs in years, but also a pretty terrible thing for the line as it was. No one really knew how to use Superman during that year and a half, the disconnect in how he was written and drawn in other books was outstanding. It really would have helped if he wrote Superman after his big story, bringing us up to speed. Which is like the same problem Birthright had, except Superman was already underway and the writers were free to pick up or ignore those elements. As well as the successors sometimes did it shouldn't have been nearly that hard to pick up the ball and run with it. It shouldn't be "downhill" after the beginning.

I remember Perez complaining that nobody in editorial could tell him what was and wasn’t canon. Part of that might be editorial’s fault (they certainly screwed over lots of creators during the New 52), But I’ve also recently learned that Morrison doesn’t tell editorial what’s going on until the last minute, so they can’t interfere too much. And since he’s such a big name he can get away with that. It really sabatoged Superbro right out the gate.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Do they state that it was only a week passing from "hanging Glenmorgan off a building" to "fighting the Collector?" Then I stand corrected, I don't recall them establishing that firm a timeframe. But it's been years since I read it now.

Yeah, while he's trapped in the bottle city, Glenmorgan himself mentions that it was only a week ago that Superman forced him to confess.

[ironman2978]

I still say it is, without any competition whatsoever, the best post-Crisis Superman origin ever. Johns definitely screwed up by asserting his power and putting his generic story back in. But, DC could fix it if they give the origin to another version of Superman.

I really agree with this sentiment.

Honestly I felt like Morrison's interpretation of Superman origin was a better display of what Geoff Johns wanted and attempted to do with Secret Origins, not only in combining Multiple facets of Superman origin, old and new into one cohesive origin but also tell something different and exciting yet very familiar without feeling forcible glued together.

I think using Grant Morrison's origin or combining the elements of Grant and Geoff's origin would work well together, but I felt like the Reborn origin shouldn't have shoved out so much of Grant's origin to make Secret Origins the main/only origin (Clark learning how to fly with Lana as his first flight, how Lex and Clark's friendship was displayed as opposed to using Birthright's origin, How Superman revealed his secret to the world when Action Comics#0 did that origin better, etc). The worse part of the Reborn origin in my eyes at the very least, which felt more like Secret Origins, then his Post Crisis life with a little elements of the New 52 and Rebirth life, as opposed to a true amalgamation of Superman's life. It really didn't have it feel like it shoved everything New 52 that wasn't done by Geoff Johns and a few comics here and ther to the side at least.

I just read the first few issues and it is six months. In Action Comics #1 they say that Superman has been running around as an urban legend for six months. A couple issues later, he gets the armor, which takes place a week after Action #1

I can't comment on how often he wore the jeans and t-shirt after that, but I think from that point on, he should be wearing the classic suit.

That makes sense to me.

I can't either. Aside from tweaking it so that he gets his classic costume aboard Brainiac's ship instead of the New 52 armor, they could have left it as is. It was pretty close to perfect. I haven't read Birthright, but it absolutely blows SO and Byrne's MoS out of the water.

Sidebar, I also wish the transition between New 52 and Rebirth eras had been Clark and Diana breaking up, and a timeskip by a few years to show Clark and Lois married and Lois pregnant, and Clark having his classic costume back. It would have been less headache inducing. We may have missed out on Damian having a playmate but I would have rather seen Jon's birth and go along on the journey with Clark and Lois as they became new parents and raised their new son in their crazy ass world and the effect it has on their marriage. I'm thinking something along the lines of Saga.

Agreed. It's sad that DoS animated movie, handled the transition from Wonder Woman/Superman to Lois and Clark better than how New 52 and Reborn writers did. Same with how Brainiac and Superman, first met, etc. That's the one problem I had with Reborn Superman, was instead of just keeping Rebirth/Pre-Flashpoint Superman, they tried to placate fans by saying it was a merging without feeling like an actual merging to be honest.

I feel like the easiest way to transition the relationship is say Superman started dating Wonder Woman at 24, until he was 26 years old, instead of 27 years old. Jon could still work 8 years old, that would be an interesting dynamic with Damien who is 13 years old.

The fuller powerset thing is just my personal preference. I'd say the bigger issue would be reconciling the rougher more aggressive social crusader Superman with the older calmer traditional Superman. That never worked in the New 52 when writers chose to write New 52 Superman closer to his classic personality. I did like or at least respect how Morrison wrote Jeans & T-shirt Superman even if I didn't agree with all his actions and dialogue but Morrison's origin doesn't fit with the character's direction anymore. There's no connection between the two versions nor indication that Jeans & T-shirt Nuperman could become the classical Superman.

Nuperman was already the classical version, his Golden Age roots were very apparent. It doesn't get more classical than that. I feel like the passage of time is enough to explain how a young man in his 20s would grow up to be a man in his 30s who is more mature and wise. Wisdom comes with age, due to life experiences like being a professional superhero for over a decade and being in a committed relationship. He was already learning that his rougher approach wasn't solving things in the long run. If the origin doesn't fit in the current direction but Johns's lackluster SO DOES...I think there is a flaw in the current direction. It shouldn't be that difficult to allow it to fit.

He changed with age. Seems simple enough. A lot of people are different in their 30s and 40s than they were in their 20s. Especially married people. And it’s not like “classic” Supes never fought rascists, crime-lords, or showed off his angry side.

Exactly. New 52 Superman had classic Superman traits (Not just Golden Age but what could be seen in more Modern Superman interpretations like Superman TAS, Birthright, and Smallville, even elements). It's not that far-fetched that Superman matured and calmed down. That's what happened with New 52 Superman, and he was 27 as opposed to Reborn's Superman who is probably 32-35 years old. Even Pre-Flashpoint Superman had anger issues and fought real world issues, so it's not far fetched to add elements of the New 52 Superman, you can just say he matured and grew from the Early New 52 Superman into the more mature Reborn Superman and just have elements of both.

[Atomic Man]

Hard pass on the return of Nuperman.

Agreed 100 percent.

[Atomic Man]

I also wonder if this is all connected to news that DiDio might write a Superman book and the impending CRISIS. Looks like Dan and Jim are doing their damndest to undo what Geoff achieved with Rebirth. I wonder if DC can survive another massive sales failure before Dan is gone for good? Rebirth really shouldn't have worked as well as it did and it seems with Doomsday Clock's delays and Geoff's departure, Rebirth's endgame will be ignored completely and DiDio will restore the New 52 continuity. Bendis is systematically dismantling the marriage and Jon and it won't be long before it's all completely undone.

The good news it that there's still great Superman stories being told by Jimmy Palmiotti and Tom Derenick. Maybe they'll become regulars in the 100 Page Giant for as long as those last.

[_Feely_]

Stoked.

I don't like Sideways but i'll read it for Morrison and Tshirt-Supes

[Lokimaru]

Cover for the Sideways Annual



Source : https://twitter.com/NADCHeroesTalk/s...47648740044801

Alas, poor Yorick. I knew him Horatio...