Superman in Flash 49

[The Learner]

I didn't take it as a humiliation at all. Remember, Steve had Star labs analyze the visuals to one trillionth of a second just to find out what the Flashes were doing while running. One trillionth of a second means a picosecond. Superman was literally the ONLY person who could even perceive them moving at that speed and even try to catch up to them. If anything it proves that if the Flashes wanted, not even Superman could compete as far as speed is concerned. Flashes should always be faster than any other hero, and Superman should always be the fastest being (by far) outside of speed force users. Flash 49 just proved this to be the case and I am happy.

[The World]

nvm too easy.

[Kuwagaton]

The Speed Force is not the same as speed. That's like saying other superheroes are weak willed because they can't make constructs shoot out of their fingers.

[JAK]

I'm of two minds about it, really. On the one hand, all Flash has is speed, and it's the speed force, so it's not the same. At the same time, if we apply that logic to everything, then it becomes a problem. Batman only has his mind, so he has to be smarter, etc. After awhile, Superman is basically Mario from Mario Kart: good all-around, but not the best at anything. I do admit.. that does kinda nag on me a bit.

It's not a huge deal or anything, but just enough to mention.

[SiegePerilous02]

I don't see the humiliation here. He shouldn't be able to keep up with a speedster.

As for why didn't they show Wonder Woman try, frankly when was the last time she's done anything super speed wise, besides the bullets and bracelets thing?

She's been described as being "faster than Mercury" since the Golden Age, and a sizeable chunk of the WW fanbase wants her stats to be equal to Superman's. So if he can race the Flash up to a point before being surpassed, in their eyes so should she. But unfortunately like you say, there isn't really any history of her being able to do it; no classic races between her and the Flash, even though there probably should have been.

[Kuwagaton]

I'm of two minds about it, really. On the one hand, all Flash has is speed, and it's the speed force, so it's not the same. At the same time, if we apply that logic to everything, then it becomes a problem. Batman only has his mind, so he has to be smarter, etc. After awhile, Superman is basically Mario from Mario Kart: good all-around, but not the best at anything. I do admit.. that does kinda nag on me a bit.

It's not a huge deal or anything, but just enough to mention.

lol, those have always been my kinds of characters. The type to get in and out quick on lumbering opponents, but smother and shut down faster or smaller characters. Writers seem to really like making MM the most well rounded, but I don't think we have to worry about J'Onn much. Batman, well, he is a better detective because that's just his thing. But he probably isnt really smarter than Lex or Superman. And even then, it's not like Flash. Not until he dies and gets brought back as the living avatar of the internet.

There was also a thread on WW's speed elsewhere, but I'm already here. Basically with speed I think:

- Wally and Barry pretty even, Bart
- Superman, Supergirl, and Jay Garrick
- Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel, Jesse Quick

[KC]

I don't think it was humiliating at all. Being fast is the main attribute of being the Flash, so to me, it makes sense that Barry and Wally are the fastest heroes. The fact that Superman got that close to them, is impressive in my opinion.

[JAK]

lol, those have always been my kinds of characters. The type to get in and out quick on lumbering opponents, but smother and shut down faster or smaller characters. Writers seem to really like making MM the most well rounded, but I don't think we have to worry about J'Onn much. Batman, well, he is a better detective because that's just his thing. But he probably isnt really smarter than Lex or Superman. And even then, it's not like Flash. Not until he dies and gets brought back as the living avatar of the internet.

LOL! Yeah, me too. I've been a Mario nut since forever. Good point on J'Onn, though it's also good in the other direction: he's powerful, but gets upstaged a lot to the point that some writer make him filler. That he's the heart of the team is great, but the poor guy has about the powers of Superman (and more) and keeps getting pushed to the background. On Batman, I do like how they've made it where he's not smarter, just uses his mind differently than Superman does. I just wanted another example to show the idea of "if everybody's made to be better because "that's there thing" then Superman could lose more ground than I'd like. Even then, it's not huge, but just kind of a small voice in the back of my head going "ummmm..." lol

On Batman dying and coming back as the "avatar of the internet" - don't give Didio ideas like that - besides, then he'd be doing Oracle's job, and that won't fly too well! LOL

There was also a thread on WW's speed elsewhere, but I'm already here. Basically with speed I think:

- Wally and Barry pretty even, Bart
- Superman, Supergirl, and Jay Garrick
- Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel, Jesse Quick

Interesting! Thanks for sharing that.

[Triniking1234]

I have no problem with Superman losing to the Flashes in their book.

[Kuwagaton]

LOL! Yeah, me too. I've been a Mario nut since forever. Good point on J'Onn, though it's also good in the other direction: he's powerful, but gets upstaged a lot to the point that some writer make him filler. That he's the heart of the team is great, but the poor guy has about the powers of Superman (and more) and keeps getting pushed to the background. On Batman, I do like how they've made it where he's not smarter, just uses his mind differently than Superman does. I just wanted another example to show the idea of "if everybody's made to be better because "that's there thing" then Superman could lose more ground than I'd like. Even then, it's not huge, but just kind of a small voice in the back of my head going "ummmm..." lol

On Batman dying and coming back as the "avatar of the internet" - don't give Didio ideas like that - besides, then he'd be doing Oracle's job, and that won't fly too well! LOL

I primarily liked Luigi's spicy uppercuts but I was definitely a Mario in the original Smash. Ryu, Jin, etc.

I think it makes total sense for them to put the two last sons on equal footing, although I do think it's best that Superman is more likely the "main event." It's just what you expect.

With Batman here's the crazy thing: Tim is allegedly the better natural detective, Dick is the better acrobat, Cassandra is the better martial artist, and Damian... well, I dunno, Damian's like a 2.0 Batman. But it seems fans weather that so well. Check out the first arc of the current Nightwing: can you imagine a Supergirl arc called "Better than Superman" and having Superman fans roll with it?

Interesting! Thanks for sharing that.

Thanks. Jay once considered himself equal with Superman and had to steal his speed in order to win a race. Wally and Barry have proven faster several times, and so has Bart at least once as Impulse. Supergirl is so close to Superman in actual power that speed likely is not different. Wonder Woman and Jesse Quick proved just as fast as each other, though I dunno if Jesse has received an upgrade since. I put Shazam there since I presume the speed of Hermes and Mercury are the same.

[GodofBoredom]

Thanks. Jay once considered himself equal with Superman and had to steal his speed in order to win a race. Wally and Barry have proven faster several times, and so has Bart at least once as Impulse. Supergirl is so close to Superman in actual power that speed likely is not different. Wonder Woman and Jesse Quick proved just as fast as each other, though I dunno if Jesse has received an upgrade since. I put Shazam there since I presume the speed of Hermes and Mercury are the same.

I think you got that backwards. Superman has outsped Impulse twice in the two 'races' they've had. The first time he outsped him to a bomb (https://tinyurl.com/yc9t94os), and the 2nd time he got in front of him as he was startled and tried to run away (https://tinyurl.com/ydagyzts, https://tinyurl.com/ybspa84t, https://tinyurl.com/y7e8zwu6, https://tinyurl.com/yd4m5ux9). Bart has had a good race with Superboy while Superman, well: https://tinyurl.com/ydz6bv5v, https://tinyurl.com/y7rhqe5j).

Jay has directly admitted that post-Infinite Crisis Superman (who got much of his Pre-Crisis history back) is faster than him in the Lightning Saga from Justice League:
https://pm1.narvii.com/6429/81c4ed6c...4a5d2c9_hq.jpg
https://pm1.narvii.com/6429/2057ce55...20203e2_hq.jpg

And Superman came back from behind, but still won the race with Jay to catch Wally even before Infinite Crisis.

We also have Reverse Flash (post Rebirth) directly admitting that Superman is a rival to him in speed:
https://pm1.narvii.com/6429/bc8cd138...7b20046_hq.jpg

All in all, Superman is clearly just behind the main Flash, be it Barry or Wally, and it's only natural since that rivalry is older than most writers today.

As for other comparisons, Jay is clearly faster than Black Adam in Geoff Johns' JSA and by proxy, Captain Marvel, too.

Wonder Woman stated that Power Girl is at least as fast as her in their fight.

In my opinion, it's something like:
Wally >/= Barry
Superman
Jay
Wonder Woman/Power Girl
Captain Marvel/Black Adam

[Kuwagaton]

Actually no on that first one. In Adventures #533 Superman was worried about him jumping the gun. But Bart beat him to every location. The others I haven't read really.

But I'd say that's something that should be obvious about this recent Flash comic: Superman comes from way behind to try catching them. I can't imagine anyone but a handful of people wasting their time trying to compete with Usain Bolt, but definitely no one would bother and come within spitting distance if they got a late start.

[Lvenger]

Like it's been said, Flashes are considered the fastest superheroes and speed is their main power so it makes sense that they can be faster than Superman. I do admit it was a little galling to see them leave him in the dust but Clark was the only one who came close to Barry and Wally, including Diana and Hal. Superman is still the fastest non Speed Force hero in the DCU.

[Sacred Knight]

The humility of Superman helps keep him from looking bad as well. In not like Flash: Rebirth where Johns has him confident only so he can have Barry specifically embarrass him; Superman's well aware that pretty much all he can do is catch up for a brief period. He just wanted to use that brief moment to try and get a word in edgewise.

Only thing the story misses out on is having Diana try to as well. She has raced a Flash before as well.

[GodofBoredom]

Actually no on that first one. In Adventures #533 Superman was worried about him jumping the gun. But Bart beat him to every location.

They didn't race to any location. The issue was Superman investigating the problem with Impulse tagging along and zig-zagging impulsively (ha!). The one time Superman actually poured on speed, as he actually says in the first scan, is when he has to reach Bart before he reaches the final bomb - which he does, as he outraces and catches him mid-swing.

If this is ambiguous, the later scene I posted where he outraces a panicking Impulse should suffice. Or the other scenes against the relevant speedsters.

The Reverse-Flash scene is from Time Masters Vanishing Point.
The Jay Garrick scene is from Brad Meltzer's Justice League arc with the Legion.
The Black Adam/Jay Garrick scenes are from all over the JSA fights with BA, but the most pertinent comparison is when Jay Garrick has to get back to the past, so he and Black Adam start running to build energy, which Jay can steal to time-travel. Within that, it's made quite clear that Jay is much faster, and Black Adam stumbles at only around mach 500.
I can't give you the exact issue the Impulse scene happened, but I believe it's from somewhere around King of the World period. I will check, if you want.

I agree with the rest of your post. Superman even momentarily getting close to them, when they are moving so fast they're generating energy felt all over the Universe, is pretty amazing. But I'd have liked some interaction between them, as it is Superman felt like an annoying bug that they didn't even bother to notice.