Was House of M really that bad of a thing?

[Gambit, King of Thieves]

I’m not referring to “No more mutants.” Obviously, that was a terrible thing for Wanda to do.
I’m referring to the world itself. Jessica Drew was talking about how she was happier. People got what they want. Was it really any better in 616? Was there a need to go back for other than plot reasons (i.e. “if we make a mutant utopia we can’t do any interesting stories anymore”), or was the House of M earth actually better?

[Gray Lensman]

I’m not referring to “No more mutants.” Obviously, that was a terrible thing for Wanda to do.
I’m referring to the world itself. Jessica Drew was talking about how she was happier. People got what they want. Was it really any better in 616? Was there a need to go back for other than plot reasons (i.e. “if we make a mutant utopia we can’t do any interesting stories anymore”), or was the House of M earth actually better?

I believe one of the other themes in House of M was how those happy lives were unraveling. I remember Spidey being burned in effigy as a 'human' at least.

[Tycon]

Yeah. I never got the DIRE NEED for Logan to screw everything up for Pietro. I think Parker did some wild stuff (and the Academy X kids were facing problems but compared to M-Day, this was OBJECTIVELY a better reality to live in), but it was overall great.

[Gambit, King of Thieves]

I’ce only actually read the main event.
And while stuff is bad for humans, is it any worse than it was for mutants? There’s certainly some bad stuff going in, but is it any worse than in 616?

[mikeb]

I believe one of the other themes in House of M was how those happy lives were unraveling. I remember Spidey being burned in effigy as a 'human' at least.

It certainly was better for Carol. She was the world's most popular hero and the first time she called Captain Marvel.

[Knives]

The question is not whether it was a better or worse world or reality. The question is why those who rebelled against House of M reality believe that this was the right thing to do?

Yes many had what they always wanted and in general the world was better but that does not mean that the world was what it should be for those who rebelled. Basically we are talking about human nature where right and wrong or concepts about how the world should be vary from person to person. In that sense for some it is not enough to have what they most want if they do not make it happen for yourself or through hard work. For some the journey is more important than results.

If you look at the reality created by the acts of the apocalyptic brothers in Uncanny Avengers the X-mens had what they always wanted and yet they gave up on this to save humanity. The reality created by Cap's Hydra version had world peace but with a view that the heroes disagreed about the world and they fought against it.

In the same way the Phoenix 5 were creating a better world during AvX ending hunger, wars and giving energy for free but the Avengers and rulers of the world were not satisfied or they thought that was wrong.

For example if you create a world where humanity is immortal and does not age or need to eat some would call paradise or eden since wars would end. But others will think it would be a wrong world where humanity would be stagnant without change or evolution in this world humanity would not need procreation and would probably lose its spiritual side.

Even though you are God and create a perfect world human nature will challenge this concept because they have that choice .

Now on mutant utopias they will always have elements in common with House of M but that does not mean they need to be the same.

[Gambit, King of Thieves]

Yes, but the Avengers weren’t up against the Phoenix Five for solving crises; it was how they were doing it and the other things they were doing.

[Gray Lensman]

Yes, but the Avengers weren’t up against the Phoenix Five for solving crises; it was how they were doing it and the other things they were doing.

That narrative went out the window when the Avengers attacked Utopia a second time, crashing into a room of teenagers playing video games. They got the hammer...Thor's hammer. And what motivated Cap to insist on another assault? Colossus talked some villains down, who then agreed to provide Eastern Europe with free electricity. The absolute horror of it all.

The Avengers plan in that series came across as 'Punch them till they get angry and punch back. Then blame them for being violent and punch harder, while screaming "See what you made me do!"'

If they had waited until something terrible was done, I might be able to see them as something other than the villains who won. But by attacking again when the P5's actions were still altruistic it came across more as Steve throwing a hissy fit because he hadn't won yet. "But I'm Captain AMERICA! I always win! I always win! I always wiiiiiinnnnnnnnn!!!!!" Say that last win in the highest pitched, whiniest voice you can imagine, because that's exactly how Rogers came across.

[JasonEsta]

The question is not whether it was a better or worse world or reality. The question is why those who rebelled against House of M reality believe that this was the right thing to do?

Yes many had what they always wanted and in general the world was better but that does not mean that the world was what it should be for those who rebelled. Basically we are talking about human nature where right and wrong or concepts about how the world should be vary from person to person. In that sense for some it is not enough to have what they most want if they do not make it happen for yourself or through hard work. For some the journey is more important than results.

If you look at the reality created by the acts of the apocalyptic brothers in Uncanny Avengers the X-mens had what they always wanted and yet they gave up on this to save humanity. The reality created by Cap's Hydra version had world peace but with a view that the heroes disagreed about the world and they fought against it.

In the same way the Phoenix 5 were creating a better world during AvX ending hunger, wars and giving energy for free but the Avengers and rulers of the world were not satisfied or they thought that was wrong.

For example if you create a world where humanity is immortal and does not age or need to eat some would call paradise or eden since wars would end. But others will think it would be a wrong world where humanity would be stagnant without change or evolution in this world humanity would not need procreation and would probably lose its spiritual side.

Even though you are God and create a perfect world human nature will challenge this concept because they have that choice .

Now on mutant utopias they will always have elements in common with House of M but that does not mean they need to be the same.

Phoenix 5 were still twisted...Colossus going after Kitty and Emma just killing people at the drop of a dime. Xavier killed by Cyclops.

[Knives]

Yes, but the Avengers weren’t up against the Phoenix Five for solving crises; it was how they were doing it and the other things they were doing.

Phoenix 5 were still twisted...Colossus going after Kitty and Emma just killing people at the drop of a dime. Xavier killed by Cyclops.

I will not get into another discussion on AvX.

I just talked about AvX because it represents the idea of the topic about how people can differ in what direction the world should go. It is no different from Civil War or IvX depending on your worldview and your experiences people will have different opinions and may possibly fight for that vision.

AvsX-Zone 014.jpg


Reed AvX.jpg

The two sides of the coin accountability, justice, freedom, peace, order are beautiful words but depending on the person the meaning will be different.

In the first picture we have BP saying that refugees are coming home because the wars were over and it was good. But the American president says that humanity and the world evolve through accountability when people decide to compromise together and this was not what the X-men were doing by forcing it on mankind.

In the second we have Reed pointing out that the X-mens were not bad guys and they were improving the world and they deserved the benefit of the doubt. He says that the Avengers were the ones who provoked them and they were afraid of losing their place in a world that did not need Avengers. On the other hand the Avengers feared they would lose control and that if they wait it would be too late to stop the Phoenix 5.

[ExodusCloak]

Not better for doom

[Master of Sound]

House of was not bad at all! It was really done well actually. The end and the concequenses were less though. People seem to forget that No More Mutants is how it ended and the end of many mutants and hours it was done was in "Decimation", not HoM.

[Jesse-James]

House of M was fantastic!

[Killerbee911]

Of course House of M is better for mutants(and probably humans) but main marvel universe has this weird fiction against mutants that we probably have talk about at nauseam as fans(aka Human Torch,Inferno and Sunspot walk into a bar the racist will hate Sunspot the most and Inferno will get a little hate too,Human torch will be fine tho). If writers back off the mutants are hated narrative some then 616 universe would be just fine. In real life it is accurate to say Black people and Mexicans are hated in America but it also fair to say that Beyonce and Lebron are two of most popular people in the country and large majority minorities don't experience prejudice in its worst form ,Marvel universe needs more subtly in the treatment of mutants.

I would have to read it over but I don't think humans in House of M were treated as bad mutants in 616 get treated at times so House of M was better for everyone.

[BroHomo]

I’ce only actually read the main event.
And while stuff is bad for humans, is it any worse than it was for mutants? There’s certainly some bad stuff going in, but is it any worse than in 616?

Dust was a ditzy airhead.....soooooooooo