I have a question regarding Superman and the red trunks...

[mrbrklyn]

And if we are trying to make Superman look modern, why does he still have a cape? Almost every superhero no longer has a cape. Even Catwoman discarded her cape back in the 1980s.
I don't buy it aids in aerodynamics because Iron Man and lots of other characters fly just fine without a cape.

The cape is interesting actually and one could argue that is is a stylized produce from a previous, pre-modern, fashion. Of course, Superman's cape is nothing like the cape that would be used in 17th Centruy Delft, or even London. It has evolved in Comics as a fashion and design element of its own, and it is strictly a matter of asthetics.


It is a little bit like the customes that the Dutch used in the 17th Century in their portraits, with large flurries of ruffles that marked fashion from the 16th centruy. But the Dutch loved it in their paintings and even modernized it for customes.

[mrbrklyn]

Culturally speaking, the modern period was the period between 1860 and 1970. After that comes post-modernism. Whether we're still in the post-modern period is debatable.

In terms of fashion in western clothing, all the designs and cuts are essentially the same as in the 1920s. Fashion just mixes up those diffrent cuts--recycling the same ideas. New fabrics make it possible to do more with the designs, but it's hard for me to think of any new trend that is completely original and hadn't already existed.

Of course, this has nothing to do with comic books, as they are two dimensional and use colours in ways that we would never use them in the real world. Comic books are not supposed to be reality--that would be impossible--they are a figurative art form, meaning they are metaphorical not literal, using symbolic images to represent an impressionistic viewpoint.

To insist that comic books have to accord with some objective representation of the real world is like putting a boot on your Ferrari. Why would you want to limit comic books and prevent them from doing the one thing they do so well?

Great comment. Do you have a source for the limitation fo modern from 1860-1970? It seems I read once that the term modern always dedends on the period using it, which might be as expected.

[Korath]

Apparently, someone is having fun in The Silencer when it comes to Supes' costume : http://www.comicosity.com/exclusive-...he-silencer-8/

[Jim Kelly]

I use the dates given for Modern Art on Wikipedia. Also Modernism, which is late 19th early 20th Century according to Wikipedia. And I was thinking of the movie, THE MODERNS, which is set in Paris in the 1920s. Modern is just one of those terms like Romantic that stuck in my head as defining a particular period of culture and thought.

[mrbrklyn]

I use the dates given for Modern Art on Wikipedia. Also Modernism, which is late 19th early 20th Century according to Wikipedia. And I was thinking of the movie, THE MODERNS, which is set in Paris in the 1920s. Modern is just one of those terms like Romantic that stuck in my head as defining a particular period of culture and thought.

The wonderful modern millie

[mrbrklyn]

[Jokerz79]

One I think they bring balance to the costume and after 80 years of that usually being the prime costume it's just always looks like an else world's to me when not in the trunks like he's a Superman not the Superman.

[Jim Kelly]

On TV and in movies, they often go with a non-costume look, to get past the defenses that people have put up against super-heroes. This is why I think the jeans and T-shirt look would have worked for MAN OF STEEL if the object was to go against the super-hero convention and get people to buy into the character. But maybe that would be too SMALLVILLE. Anyway, the costume still looks like a super-hero costume so I don't think they really accomplished anything with the redesign. It's not really the trunks that those people are fussing about--that's just the easiest thing to single out--what they really are not comfortable with is super-hero costumes at all. They get just as cranky about the Flash and Captain Marvel (original version) and those characters never had any trunks.

[Kuwagaton]

Live action Flash and Captain Marvel aren't as criticized so much for design as they are for basically being Hanz and Franz.

In any case, I'm amused to be presented with the evidence of "how can different books show different things" being a fan complaint over 45 years ago.

[Jim Kelly]

The funny thing is DC probably did a few redesigns of the Uncle Sam and Santa Claus outfits. Maybe even in comics written by E. Nelson Bridwell.

[Vakanai]

Most men don't wear capes either. Most men don't wear spandex out in public. If we want to modernize Superman, put him in blue jeans, a T-shirt and athletic shoes. Otherwise we are just finding excuses to ditch the classic costume.

Yes, but capes still have the advantage of looking cool. Plus, we can't base everything on realism, but we do have to acknowledge that some stuff ages, well, like an old pair of strongman trunks, ew.

Excuse me but your opinion is contradicted by historical facts. The modern era started in the 1920's more or less. You really need to understand the scope of history and your relationship to it. The ever changing fashions that you mark decades by is a hallmark of the modern era, post-industrial revolution western society which is STILL in full bloom despite repeated warnings over the decades that tre West and Modern culture is dying and coming to an end. Superman's uniform or outfit is very very modern, very Western, and squarely fits into the current context of our living culture.

Stopped reading at "historical facts" because no one cares about fashion history lessons for why costumes should or shouldn't change today.

Live action Flash and Captain Marvel aren't as criticized so much for design as they are for basically being Hanz and Franz.

In any case, I'm amused to be presented with the evidence of "how can different books show different things" being a fan complaint over 45 years ago.

What does Hanz and Franz mean? I don't get the reference.

[Kuwagaton]

It was an old Saturday Night Live sketch. Basically, the live action Flash had a padded suit that didn't age well, while the new Shazam movie has Levi trying to deny pads and it's pretty awkward.

[Killerbee911]

On TV and in movies, they often go with a non-costume look, to get past the defenses that people have put up against super-heroes. This is why I think the jeans and T-shirt look would have worked for MAN OF STEEL if the object was to go against the super-hero convention and get people to buy into the character. But maybe that would be too SMALLVILLE. Anyway, the costume still looks like a super-hero costume so I don't think they really accomplished anything with the redesign. It's not really the trunks that those people are fussing about--that's just the easiest thing to single out--what they really are not comfortable with is super-hero costumes at all. They get just as cranky about the Flash and Captain Marvel (original version) and those characters never had any trunks.

That is not completely true, Fans are accepting of costumes when you give them semi realistic explanations for them. People like to think realism doesn't matter but best lies are based on some realism which helps the suspense of disbelief work better.Which is why Batman or Flash in spandex is silly, but when you go Flash or Batman is in futuristic poly carbon kevlar mesh some people bite on psuedo realism and they have years. Superman fans don't like to hear it but comics is inherently silly concept and visually Superman suit looks underwear outside. You are already fighting to get people to believe a bunch of fantastic elements and trunks does take people out of it. Superhero genre have move away from trunks and capes for that reason,If you watch most superhero shows you get some pseudo science explanation for the suit off the top X-men, daredevil netflix, batman nolan are easy examples. People are very comfortable with superhero costumes movies and shows have trained fans over the years and the pseudo science makes easier when they start to watch it.

Movies and shows do everything in their power to sell that stuff isn't silly. Marvel spent years easing people into the stuff until a 9 foot purple guy and magics gems are the plot of movie barely get a peep out of people but it took getting people comfortable with pseudo science of Thor and other Marvel movies. Yeah the trunks kinda do matter the Superhero genre has pretty all gotten rid of it as silly element and people have gotten use certain look for superhero suits.Here is picture with Hawkeye,Cap and Black Widow

blogs-the-feed-avengers-captain-america.jpg

Cap suits feels a bit off because everyone else suits are more grounded in pseudo realism.The last suit he is wearing Avengers color are darker and more muted fit right in and if watch visual progression of his suit over the movies you can see the changes. The Superhero genre have been training fans that Superhero suits look at certain way but people like Captain America and Superman sometimes even Flash breaks the new pattern. I mean you guys are going to keep saying that is timeless and fans don't care about realism but what is happening saying otherwise. Realism doesn't matter? I am fairly certain superman mom made his suit in the past ,then it was Kryptonian suit and the S is a family crest, Now It is Kryptonian armor.That stuff is to sell suit yes the genre has certain pseudo realism elements that helps the fantasy be accepted.

[Jim Kelly]

When it comes to movies and TV, I don't expect them to follow the comics. I don't mind in the least that ARROW is nothing like Green Arrow--and it was a better show when it wasn't. These are like adaptations of novels that can hardly be anything like the novel--they are just using some ideas from the original source to build their own reality which works according to the rules of cinema or television. They have a different agenda and they have to appeal to the bias of their own audience.

But I don't want that looping back into the comics. It really bugs me the extent to which comic books have tried to become movies and use the conventions of that medium in comics, while throwing out some of the good conventions of comics that had been developed over decades and served comics so well. The logic developed for why an actor has to be in a muscle suit for the Batman movies doesn't have to loop back into the Batman comics. Practical considerations in making a movie are not considerations when an artist puts pencil to paper and draws the real Batman. Comic books have a great freedom to do things live action could never do and it's depressing to see comics become less than what they ought to be.

[DrNewGod]

When it comes to movies and TV, I don't expect them to follow the comics. I don't mind in the least that ARROW is nothing like Green Arrow--and it was a better show when it wasn't. These are like adaptations of novels that can hardly be anything like the novel--they are just using some ideas from the original source to build their own reality which works according to the rules of cinema or television. They have a different agenda and they have to appeal to the bias of their own audience.

But I don't want that looping back into the comics. It really bugs me the extent to which comic books have tried to become movies and use the conventions of that medium in comics, while throwing out some of the good conventions of comics that had been developed over decades and served comics so well. The logic developed for why an actor has to be in a muscle suit for the Batman movies doesn't have to loop back into the Batman comics. Practical considerations in making a movie are not considerations when an artist puts pencil to paper and draws the real Batman. Comic books have a great freedom to do things live action could never do and it's depressing to see comics become less than what they ought to be.

It can be annoying, but business executives tend to think in brands rather than stories, or sourcebooks. As I understand it, it's one of the reasons Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes got its plugged pulled in favor of the far inferior Avengers Assemble; The Disney PTB wanted all the offerings to look consistent, and quality came second.