The spoiled BATMAN #50 - fallout?

[Talon1load]

They gave some fans what they wanted. Others, not so much. That's the case with every writer, for sure, but my personal preference is more risk taking and pushing the characters in different directions. I never got the feeling that any new ground was being covered in their runs or that they were looking at the character with an unique viewpoint. Some fans don't want those things, or prefer them in lesser amounts than I do, and I can see how their runs would appeal to those fans. What I would call safe, predictable and treading water are the same comics some fans find comforting, satisfying and scratching a nostalgic itch. Just depends what you're looking for.

Another reason I like writers like King is that I think there are less writers who can do what he does, and lots of writers who can do what Jurgens and Tomasi do (not to pick on them, but they are just the first writers I currently think of when I think of safe, solid, steady but unspectacular DC writers). If the writers were not credited, I doubt I could tell Abnett, Jurgens, Tomasi and Robinson apart. On the flip side, King, Priest and Simone have voices that feel distinct to me and I'm confident I could tell their writing apart from each other and from the rest of the DC roster. Having a distinct, personal voice and viewpoint is something I value.

He definitely has a distinct voice. Mostly incoherent and poorly written but a distinct voice.

[Fergus]

He definitely has a distinct voice. Mostly incoherent and poorly written but a distinct voice.

His voice isn't distinct. He is Bendis 2.0.

King himself admitted the Bendis influence.

[Fergus]

I must be dense what has King done with the character or the mythos that hasn't been done before? I'm not a hard core Batman fan but even with my limited knowledge of the character everything King has touched is stuff I have seen before. Themes I have already seen explored or touched on several times

What am i missing? What are these unique, different new things some keep mentioning?

This run is okay but I honestly can't see what's unique about it. Would be happy if someone could point me to the thing's King's doing/done that is different.

You are not dense and you won't get an answer because King isn't doing anything new. The man is actually openly ripping off other writers and stories.

The only thing you could argue is new is Bruce trying to commit suicide although one could argue that comes under Bruce having psychological problem or PTSD which isn't new.

[Naked Bat]

You are reaching and grasping using themes that have been long prevalent in Batman.

6/50 is not several, dont kid yourself.
I have dropped the book, 50 was my last so I'm well with in my rights to dissect this. Besides the thread literally asks how BAD the fallout of King's non sense will be.
And you dodged the question. What exactly is King's contribution in 50 issues?

It's your right to waste your time, I won't argue with that.

I must be dense what has King done with the character or the mythos that hasn't been done before? I'm not a hard core Batman fan but even with my limited knowledge of the character everything King has touched is stuff I have seen before. Themes I have already seen explored or touched on several times

What am i missing? What are these unique, different new things some keep mentioning?

This run is okay but I honestly can't see what's unique about it. Would be happy if someone could point me to the thing's King's doing/done that is different.

He definitely has a distinct voice. Mostly incoherent and poorly written but a distinct voice.

His voice isn't distinct. He is Bendis 2.0.

King himself admitted the Bendis influence.

You guys are funny. The content of the story may not be new, but the way it's told is, because King's approach with narrative has a distinctive feel to it.

Grant Morrison said, while writing Batman, that you can't tell new stories, because everything has already been told. And he's right. That doesn't prevent writers like King to tell their stories in a different and interesting way.

The swamp thing issue, the diner issue in war of jokes and riddle, the joker/catwoman dialogue in batman #49 all have a really distinct, and even surrealist mood that is quite different from what someone like Scott Snyder presented.

What did King bring to the mythos? he's more interested in telling stories than in showing how cool batman is, which is refreshing. You have the right not to like his work. It's perfectly fine.

[Miles To Go]

Because they give a damn about the product, aren't settling for less and want improvements to what they're reading.

Given the Superman status quo I wasn't as surprised some thought it would actually happen. But Batman Annual #2 with "alternate/possible future" Selina/Bruce thing really made me think the marriage wasn't going to happen. Annual #2 absolutely felt like King saying "I won't/can't marry them, so here's me covering their marriage in the only setting I can, an alternate possible future story."

I still think that annual is canon

[dietrich]

Aah so it's not what King's doing that's unique or different it's HOW he's doing it.

I smell Snake oil.

[Miles To Go]

Batman#50 and Catwoman#1 made fully returnable. The right thing to do.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/07...sorrynotsorry/

[Miles To Go]

Didio tells fans upset with Batman#50 to "get over it"

https://www.newsarama.com/40891-sdcc...g-picture.html

Pick your hill pal. Pick your hill.

[DrNewGod]

So King is getting death threats.

I don't care how much somebody disliked #50. Issuing death threats because one doesn't like a plot twist attempt makes the cyber assailant an utterly contemptible troglodyte, deserving no place of any kind in a civilized society. The only shame is that we can't publicly distribute the names, photographs, and addresses of such creatures so that everyone with whom they have even been acquainted becomes aware of what low, craven, despicable, and pathetic wretches they are.

[Celgress]

So King is getting death threats.

I don't care how much somebody disliked #50. Issuing death threats because one doesn't like a plot twist attempt makes the cyber assailant an utterly contemptible troglodyte, deserving no place of any kind in a civilized society....

Bravo, I couldn't agree more with this statement.

[daningotham]

So King is getting death threats.

I don't care how much somebody disliked #50. Issuing death threats because one doesn't like a plot twist attempt makes the cyber assailant an utterly contemptible troglodyte, deserving no place of any kind in a civilized society. The only shame is that we can't publicly distribute the names, photographs, and addresses of such creatures so that everyone with whom they have even been acquainted becomes aware of what low, craven, despicable, and pathetic wretches they are.

Yeah, this is getting beyond ridiculous now. It's really too bad people have to take a comic book so seriously. I mean, I love them the same as everyone who talks about them on these boards. But this is getting beyond crazy.

[Talon1load]

Death threats should be prosecuted. I hate King’s writing but that’s way too far.

[FBarnhill]

Batman posts his response:

[Black_Adam]

Ugh I couldn't even finish #50 had to skip a few pages to the last page, final straw for me. This is the first time in a very long time I'm dropping Batman.

[Last Son of Krypton]

DiDio and Lee talk about the controversy around Batman #50: https://io9.gizmodo.com/dc-comics-pu...und-1827821887

io9: I want to talk about Batman #50 a little bit. I’ve seen reports that it sold well, despite all the outcry. Do you feel like there’s anything you would have done differently about the messaging? Because people were expecting an actual wedding...

DiDio: I never expected an actual wedding.

Lee: But you knew what was going to happen!

io9: There was a sense of betrayal or bait-and-switch, on the part of some readers. How can you address that in a way that doesn’t necessarily make people feel like they’re taken for granted?

Lee: I can’t remember if they got married or not, but remember the Fantastic Four? The wedding of Reed and Sue Richards? I don’t know if they got married at the end of it, but—

DiDio: They did.

Lee: They did? Whenever I read wedding issues as a kid, it was always framed as a question of “will it happen or not?” Like, “villains allowing our heroes to live in happiness? Is that something that could possibly happen?” And that was some of the feedback we were getting from the fans before the issue even printed. Either “oh my god, it’s going to kill me if [Batman and Catwoman] don’t get married,” or “there’s no way it will happen.” So, I felt like other people shared that same “would it happen or not” sensibility. It’s like an issue [where] we say two characters are “fighting to the death,” right? You’re setting up this expectation, hyping up this story, and then the purpose of reading it is to find out what happens. Right?

I think we could have done a better job of parsing the words better. But, at the end of the day, we heard what the retailers said and we made the books returnable. Most of the commentary we got back from the retailers was, “we appreciate the support, we sold out.” We recognize that we can separate the two. We can separate the sales from the information that was given, and whether they felt like they were given all the information they needed to make the proper choices. It’s almost immaterial whether they sold out or not; I understand that’s where they’re coming from. From that standpoint, we’re happy to make the books returnable and do an internal review going forward. The questions are “how do we message things like this?” and “are there ways to make it clearer?”

I’ll tell you, I drew one of the variant covers and it’s Batman touching Catwoman in the rain. They’re clearly crying. It’s a sad image. And I even thought, “Oh my God, am I giving it away? Is it giving away too much?” I actually ran it by Tom and said, “Hey, do you think this is tipping our hand too much?” He was cool with it, but I felt for sure after that went out I was giving away the story. And so, again, it kind of shows you perhaps—for me, personally speaking—we had a blind spot towards what was written and what I expected out of a story like that, and I understand that people don’t share that same point of view…

DiDio: Yeah, I mean, I have a couple opinions on that. You asked about us taking the audience for granted; actually, if you want to be perfectly honest, I think the audience took the story for granted. For me, it’s about the journey. To explore the issues in the story.

We’re not as interested in a married Batman. We’re interested in a story about a Batman who is anticipating being married, trying to live a normal life. We constantly go back to the Batman family, the level of tragedy that’s been thrown at them and what drives them. The most interesting thing that I heard was that, [some fans] wanted the wedding to happen because they wanted Batman to be happy. I understand that but, to me, a happy Batman is the end of Batman. Our story is about the drama and the challenges he’s facing, and I think there’s no greater story about a hero—about someone who puts his own personal interests aside in order to move on and help others. That’s the hero’s journey. Batman’s our greatest hero in so many ways. And it’s important for him to understand that, and he’s constantly putting the tragedy of his parents’ deaths as a motivating force and a driving force, where he puts the life of Bruce Wayne aside. We got a glimpse of his [future] life for a moment and a chance to see what it might look like.

But the reality is, married Batman is an Elseworlds Batman, to me. You know? They did that in Earth-2. We’ve done these stories. And people who anticipated that all said the same thing. Did you really think Superman was going to stay dead after Superman #75? Where’s the challenge there? So, my standpoint is that, I think that Tom has a really long plan for Batman, he really does have a hundred issues figured out. And this is just part of that journey. And it’s a turning point. That’s what’s important. And a story is judged, not by how that story is told, but how it effects future stories. And the future stories because of this moment I think are going to be much stronger because of how this issue played out rather than any other way it was going to be told.

io9: Do you know where he’s heading, where the endpoint is?

DiDio: I know where it is. We’re still trying to figure some of the pieces out, but we know the basic arcs of where this is.

io9: Issue #100. I mean, issue # 103, which Tom King is saying would be the last issue of this mega-arc. The last page. Do you know what that is?

DiDio: I have an idea. But you know what? What’s great about the creative business is that you have something that you’re pointing to, but the journey is really interesting and sooner or later the characters start to tell a story for you. And Tom’s one of those kind of writers. He’s following the path of the character. Those things evolve and change. There was a point where Catwoman wasn’t going to run into Bruce, and then all of a sudden, she does. And these things just evolve, because you see where the potential is. And again, that story creates potential, not limits. That’s why, from my standpoint, [Batman #50] reads as the logical conclusion of that art of the arc.