A Watchmen ongoing vs a Charlton characters ongoing

[Lee]

They should do a Charlton team book but instead of Captain Atom it should have Atomic Mouse. And instead of Peacemaker and Liberty Belle and Blue Beetle it should have Duck Dodgers, Bugs Bunny, Foghorn Leghorn, Sharky and George, Daisy Duck and Batman. It should be a funny animal level book.

There's your money maker DC. You're welcome.

[Ascended]

I wouldn't have a problem with a non-Charlton character being on a team title, if they meshed with the roster and added something.

I mean, if you're gonna do Ted as the Beetle, how can you *not* do Booster? It'd be criminal. I prefer Jaime as Blue Beetle, but Ted and Booster? That's one of the best bromances in comics. Can't have one without the other. Shouldn't, anyway.

I think doing a street level title disguised as a Charlton book is a mistake. That's not a Charlton title, that's a street book that happens to feature some Charlton characters (and Batman).

I'd be fine with Captain Atom joining the JSA, but not because he shouldn't be involved in a Charlton book. He'd just be a good fit there. But he'd also be a good fit for a Charlton title.

Just don't call it LAW. That was a terrible name.

[Trey Strain]

I'd call this vote pretty decisive. But if I had to wager, I'd bet that we're getting a Watchmen comic.

Not because that's a good idea, but because some people at DC are hot to write and edit one, so that they can leave their mark on the property.

[millernumber1]

I'd call this vote pretty decisive. But if I had to wager, I'd bet that we're getting a Watchmen comic.

Not because that's a good idea, but because some people at DC are hot to write and edit one, so that they can leave their mark on the property.

I mean...we're a pretty small sample size, and mostly hardcore fans who know both Watchmen and the Charltons. I think the general public (that DC desperately wants to get reading) knows the Watchmen, and would like them better.

But we're already getting our Watchmen comic. With the guest starring of Nightshade in Deathstroke today, and the upcoming Question reveal in Action Comics, I think there's a chance that the Charltons will show up more now.

[Trey Strain]

I think this poll is quite meaningful.

I grant you that a Watchmen comic might get more media attention and thus make a bigger splash at first, but this is something that people who read comics would like.

I really don't see how it could flop.

[Lee]

I think this poll is quite meaningful.

I grant you that a Watchmen comic might get more media attention and thus make a bigger splash at first, but this is something that people who read comics would like.

I really don't see how it could flop.

The only way it will flop is if DC don't do exactly what I suggested! The idea is there DC! Don't leave money on the table!

[Ascended]

I think this poll is quite meaningful.

I grant you that a Watchmen comic might get more media attention and thus make a bigger splash at first, but this is something that people who read comics would like.

I really don't see how it could flop.

Sorry man, no poll here is meaningful. We're not only a very small sample size, but the entire forums-posting community isn't an accurate reflection of the comics-buying audience. You need look no further than the sales figures for books like Batman, Titans, and Mister Miracle; those books would be selling a lot differently if what we few posters said online was what the majority of fans were actually thinking.

Now, I do agree with you about a Watchmen title starting off with a ton of hype and then dying because it's not a IP built for serialized formats. I agree that a Charlton book probably has better chances of surviving long-term. I even agree that Captain Atom would make a fine addition to the JSA (though I just think he fits, I'm not trying to make the Charlton roster something it isnt).

But a Charlton book isn't a sure success. None of the characters are terribly popular; even Beetle struggles to sell and he's the biggest name out of the bunch these days. Putting a bunch of mid-level, only semi-popular characters on a team usually means you have a team title that is only a mid-level, semi-popular one. And not even Batman is going to change that too much; just look at JLA. Wasn't exactly a Top 10 seller, and it's roster was far more popular than Peacemaker, Nightshade, and Judo Master.

I'd give a Charlton title a try. And so would most of us here. But that doesn't mean the comics buying community at large would feel the same way.

The only way it will flop is if DC don't do exactly what I suggested! The idea is there DC! Don't leave money on the table!

I know you joke, but I'd definitely give that a first issue.

[Trey Strain]

Sorry man, no poll here is meaningful. We're not only a very small sample size, but the entire forums-posting community isn't an accurate reflection of the comics-buying audience. You need look no further than the sales figures for books like Batman, Titans, and Mister Miracle; those books would be selling a lot differently if what we few posters said online was what the majority of fans were actually thinking.

Now, I do agree with you about a Watchmen title starting off with a ton of hype and then dying because it's not a IP built for serialized formats. I agree that a Charlton book probably has better chances of surviving long-term. I even agree that Captain Atom would make a fine addition to the JSA (though I just think he fits, I'm not trying to make the Charlton roster something it isnt).

But a Charlton book isn't a sure success. None of the characters are terribly popular; even Beetle struggles to sell and he's the biggest name out of the bunch these days. Putting a bunch of mid-level, only semi-popular characters on a team usually means you have a team title that is only a mid-level, semi-popular one. And not even Batman is going to change that too much; just look at JLA. Wasn't exactly a Top 10 seller, and it's roster was far more popular than Peacemaker, Nightshade, and Judo Master.

Come on now. A poll taken here can't be THAT far out of kilter with comics readers in general. That idea is just not credible.

As far as the personnel goes -- besides Barman, I've listed Green Arrow, Hawkman, Black Canary, Sandman, The Atom, Wildcat and Skyman, as well as the Charlton characters.

In other words, just about every one of DC's street-level heroes.

If I were an editor and a writer came to me and told me he couldn't write a successful comic with those characters in it, I'd tell him to report to human resources immediately and pick up his last paycheck. And not to use me as a job reference.

Jeez. Would the guy need Superman and Wonder Woman in it too?

[Ascended]

Come on now. A poll taken here can't be THAT far out of kilter with comics readers in general. That idea is just not credible.

I don't have hard data. I presume you don't either. But sales figures for many books do not reflect the popular opinions on places like this. That tells me all I need to know. Until someone at a major publisher actually says otherwise, I have no reason to assume we few thousand posters accurately reflect the whole audience. We are, after all, the most passionate and zealous of our kind. We're the extreme end of things; and I doubt we're a fair representation of fandom any more than I think the alt-right accurately reflects all conservatives, or SJW's reflect all liberals.

As far as the personnel goes -- besides Barman, I've listed Green Arrow, Hawkman, Black Canary, Sandman, The Atom, Wildcat and Skyman, as well as the Charlton characters.

In other words, just about every one of DC's street-level heroes.

Exactly. You dont want a Charlton title. You want a street title with some Charlton characters on the roster. Which is fine. Honestly, I'd maybe give such a team an issue to impress me. But it's not a Charlton book just because it has some of those faces on the cover, either.

If I were an editor and a writer came to me and told me he couldn't write a successful comic with those characters in it, I'd tell him to report to human resources immediately and pick up his last paycheck. And not to use me as a job reference.

And yet, you're not an editor. You're just a dude posting on a forum, same as the rest of us.

[Trey Strain]

I don't have hard data. I presume you don't either. But sales figures for many books do not reflect the popular opinions on places like this. That tells me all I need to know. Until someone at a major publisher actually says otherwise, I have no reason to assume we few thousand posters accurately reflect the whole audience. We are, after all, the most passionate and zealous of our kind. We're the extreme end of things; and I doubt we're a fair representation of fandom any more than I think the alt-right accurately reflects all conservatives, or SJW's reflect all liberals.



Exactly. You dont want a Charlton title. You want a street title with some Charlton characters on the roster. Which is fine. Honestly, I'd maybe give such a team an issue to impress me. But it's not a Charlton book just because it has some of those faces on the cover, either.

Ah, I get it. You want a just-Charlton title, untainted by any other characters.

I can understand that. But the problem is, it probably wouldn't sell. Why would it?

But if you add a few thousand fans of Batman, a few thousand of Green Arrow, a few thousand of Hawkman, a few thousand of Black Canary, and a few thousand of the JSA to the fans of Charlton, then that would be a different story.

And would it really be so awful to get seven or so Charlton characters every month, even if they were accompanied by some others that would help sell the comic?

I don't think it would be.

[Ascended]

Well, the thread is about a Charlton title. Not a street title with some Charlton characters.

And I have nothing against the idea of a couple non-Charlton characters on the roster. I mentioned Booster in my first post here (who's a true blue DC original, for anyone who doesn't know). He'd be a great character to add to such a roster, especially if you're using Ted instead of Jaime. I'm one of those fans who believes the DC sandbox is there to be used to its fullest extent, I usually dislike segregating parts of it. But again, this thread didn't say "street team with Peacemaker and Ted Kord" it said "Charlton" so that's the premise I assumed we were working from.

And I think you and I have discussed this before, but you misunderstand how these demographics work. If a few thousand Batman fans picked up the book, those are largely going to be the same few thousand Arrow fans who pick up the book, and so on. These characters, especially all coming from a similar sphere of the DCU, don't have widely different and separate fanbases. Most Arrow fans are also Bat fans, most Canary fans are also Arrow and Bat fans, etc. So it's not one of those things where each non-Charlton character brings 3-4 thousand of their own fans and it all adds up to an extra 10-15K thousand sales. You'll get mostly overlap, and end up with far fewer sales than you're expecting.

And I don't recall off the top of my head but Batman's presence didn't seem to help the last JLA too awful much either. Slapping the Bat on a book isn't quite the sales guarantee it was a few years ago. Bats would fit the roster well enough, and he'd help sales, but he's not a magic trinket that'll make any book a success. Not anymore, anyway.

[Carabas]

Come on now. A poll taken here can't be THAT far out of kilter with comics readers in general.

You don't know how to read polls.
Nobody has actually voted in favour of buying a Charlton comic.

They merely answered the hypothetical question about what they would prefer DC launched.
Personally I would almost certainly not buy a Charlton book. I did vote for it though because I really do not want DC to create a Watchmen book.

But the problem is, it probably wouldn't sell.

Nobody beyond you cares about that. Even DC wouldn't care. They launch plenty of books they know aren't going to make it to 25 issues.

[Trey Strain]

You don't know how to read polls.
Nobody has actually voted in favour of buying a Charlton comic.

They merely answered the hypothetical question about what they would prefer DC launched.
Personally I would almost certainly not buy a Charlton book. I did vote for it though because I really do not want DC to create a Watchmen book.


Nobody beyond you cares about that. Even DC wouldn't care. They launch plenty of books they know aren't going to make it to 25 issues.

If you read that poll as saying that a Watchmen comic might be a better idea, then please don't tell me I can't read a poll. Look in a mirror when you say that.

And I promise you that DC cares whether an ongoing sells well enough to run for more than 25 issues. They don't publish comics just for the heck of it. They publish they to make money.

Finally, if you would not buy a Charlton book, then why are you commenting in this thread, except maybe that you just want to prove me "wrong?" I promise you that DC doesn't care what a non-customer thinks about a possible title or any other possible product.

When you get a phone call from a market research group, they find out whether you're a customer or a potential customer. If you're not, then they end the call. They don't care what you think.

[Carabas]

If you read that poll as saying that a Watchmen comic might be a better idea....

I didn't.

I read the poll as saying people do NOT want a Watchmen comic and don't care if DC does or doesn't puts out a Charlton comic as log as they DO NOT put out a Watchmen comic.

Also, you wouldn't buy a proper Charlton comic either.

[Trey Strain]

You don't know what I would buy. But you said this: "Personally I would almost certainly not buy a Charlton book."

You wouldn't buy a Charlton comic, yet earlier in this thread you demanded that one include the most powerful Charlton characters! You demanded that a comic you wouldn't buy include certain characters!

Who is going to listen to that?

Why did you go to the mat with a demand like that, unless you were just trying to win an argument that you have no interest in?