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  1. #226
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfan90 View Post
    Having your powers born from magic or god gifted doesn't makes you do anything special in fiction. By that logic they should be faster than Flashes too since they are also bound by laws of physics.

    Superman was a speedster before Flash was even a concept.
    I'm fine with Flash smoking Superman in super speed. It's just about all he brings to the table, at least let him be the clear best at it. I don't care for the Silver Age approach to the Justice League where it was Clark and his entourage of backup dancers unless we're making a cheesy hip hop video, and even then only if Bruce has an oversized Bat-shaped clock necklace.

  2. #227
    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfan90 View Post
    Having your powers born from magic or god gifted doesn't makes you do anything special in fiction. By that logic they should be faster than Flashes too since they are also bound by laws of physics.

    Superman was a speedster before Flash was even a concept.
    Where does Supergirl rank on this chart? Isn't Supergirl supposed to be faster than Superman and can make sharper turns than Superman can?

  3. #228
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    Where does Supergirl rank on this chart? Isn't Supergirl supposed to be faster than Superman and can make sharper turns than Superman can?
    Has that ever been established in current continuity? I don't think so. Making sharper turn only means better control, not necessarily faster. There are whole lot of characters with speed that aren't on the list like other kryptonIans like zod, new gods, daxmites ... Etc.heck! Bart is not even on that list.

  4. #229
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    Where does Supergirl rank on this chart? Isn't Supergirl supposed to be faster than Superman and can make sharper turns than Superman can?
    I believe lots of characters were omitted by redundancy. Supergirl must have the same base powers of Superman or any Daxamite, for instance, so they all stand on that same spot ion theory. Same goes for the Shazam familly.

    Flash family gets ranked individually because it's their thing.
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  5. #230
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    I believe lots of characters were omitted by redundancy. Supergirl must have the same base powers of Superman or any Daxamite, for instance, so they all stand on that same spot ion theory. Same goes for the Shazam familly.

    Flash family gets ranked individually because it's their thing.
    That's not competitive or great. They shouldn't make flimsy lists like this, if it was all about the flash family. Just say, this is the rankings of flashes and their villains. Don't drag the larger dcu. This is why i hate the shared universe concept sometimes.
    Superman ain't supergirl or jon or chris or kon. And viceversa with each other. Shazam is family full of guys. It is unfair and demeaning to treat them as one.
    What if the reverse is done? What if wally represents the entire flash family?the outrage will be of epic proportions. Especially, from the cw fans. This list shouldn't be taken seriously.

  6. #231
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Superman should be the strongest, while Flash should be the fastest. Everything else is negotiable regarding them, IMO.
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  7. #232
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Superman should be the strongest, while Flash should be the fastest. Everything else is negotiable regarding them, IMO.
    The problem with this line of thinking is that, this might work with marvel. But not dc.(even they won't do it. They will egg discussion on by having hulk and thor fight again and again. Not give much of a definitive answer). Because dc wasn't created as a universe. Marvel on the otherhand was made like that.you are equating superman with just strength. When that is not the case. Nor can be that true for the large dc universe characters with multiple powersets like wonderwoman, shazam, the martian.. Etc. Restricting characters to one attribute of powerset might affect the characters overall vision. Marvel heroes are compartmentalised in their powerset. Dc heroes aren't.

    For instance, you are right. Superman is a supernatural strongman.But, That guy was the goldenage guy. The first iteration of "man of action". The guy who used to jump around. Then he took to the sky. Then he became the silverage guy "the man of tomorrow". That guy was good at everything and he was an all rounder. If you ask "man of tomorrow" to not be good at anything but allow them to do those things. Then you are effectively changed the vision for the character. You created "the man of steel" (postcrisis guy) from "the man of tomorrow". Small changes can cause radical changes to overall vision of a character. This is just in case of superman. For shazam it's even worse. Small changes like shazam being a different personality entirely or a kid stuck in grown man's body. Affects the stories being told with these characters and creates different versions. Heck! Have batman be goofy and wacky. That would call back to different version of the character.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 10-18-2019 at 03:47 AM.

  8. #233
    Spectacular Member Tenzel Kim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    I believe lots of characters were omitted by redundancy. Supergirl must have the same base powers of Superman or any Daxamite, for instance, so they all stand on that same spot ion theory. Same goes for the Shazam familly.

    Flash family gets ranked individually because it's their thing.
    No, the Flash family is ranked because this is a list of how the writer of the Flash comic thinks of "all" the super-speed characters in the DC Universe who'd come first in a race, so naturally the Flash characters are heavily featured.

    In fact I'd argue against it being an official list as it is clearly labeled that this list is based on the thoughts of one writer. I doubt other writers were sought out to get any kind of consensus on the matter so others might have a very different perspective.

  9. #234
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    The problem with this line of thinking is that, this might work with marvel. But not dc.(even they won't do it. They will egg discussion on by having hulk and thor fight again and again. Not give much of a definitive answer). Because dc wasn't created as a universe. Marvel on the otherhand was made like that.you are equating superman with just strength. When that is not the case. Nor can be that true for the large dc universe characters with multiple powersets like wonderwoman, shazam, the martian.. Etc. Restricting characters to one attribute of powerset might affect the characters overall vision. Marvel heroes are compartmentalised in their powerset. Dc heroes aren't.

    For instance, you are right. Superman is a supernatural strongman.But, That guy was the goldenage guy. The first iteration of "man of action". The guy who used to jump around. Then he took to the sky. Then he became the silverage guy "the man of tomorrow". That guy was good at everything and he was an all rounder. If you ask "man of tomorrow" to not be good at anything but allow them to do those things. Then you are effectively changed the vision for the character. You created "the man of steel" (postcrisis guy) from "the man of tomorrow". Small changes can cause radical changes to overall vision of a character. This is just in case of superman. For shazam it's even worse. Small changes like shazam being a different personality entirely or a kid stuck in grown man's body. Affects the stories being told with these characters and creates different versions. Heck! Have batman be goofy and wacky. That would call back to different version of the character.
    Well, as someone who has been a major fan of Supes since '68, the big thing that always comes to mind first about him is his super-strength. Not that he shouldn't be the most powerful based on the collection of all his powers he definitely should), mind you, but, IMO, nobody should top him in physical strength. Others can be faster, smarter, etc., but if you need someone who might be able to move a planet, Clark is the guy.
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  10. #235
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Well, as someone who has been a major fan of Supes since '68, the big thing that always comes to mind first about him is his super-strength. Not that he shouldn't be the most powerful based on the collection of all his powers he definitely should), mind you, but, IMO, nobody should top him in physical strength. Others can be faster, smarter, etc., but if you need someone who might be able to move a planet, Clark is the guy.
    l would argue you are focusing on an aspect because that struck you.to be fair, Post crisis guy is very much average guy with muscles that he continually gets strong by taking sun protein shake . That might by why to you he seems that way.i used to think the same till i read older stuff.for me that will never be "the superman". It will just be a superman. It turns out clark is an incredibly intelligent man with out his strength. He is incredibly athletic and fast. He had to push and struggle during the goldenage to silverage transition. At first there was no solar radiation nonsense.So,he had to work and struggle in every aspect .

    Btw, avery aspect of superman's where copied by other guys that followed him. batman took the vigilante protector aspect who was rough around the edges and struck fear into the bad guys from goldenage superman(superman was gentle, kind and gave hope to the weak. The attribute that stuck around ) . flash took speed so on and so forth. Each version of the character had a vision. I am not sure if it's intentional but it's there.

    For me, this is the essence of silverage superman. But, that guy had his farewell.the Perfect kid is a solid representation of the guy with less of showing what he really can do business. In this episode, someone asks a valid question "is quality a crime?" and also "excellence is something to be treasured not scorned".later the same guy gets jealous of the kid.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 10-18-2019 at 04:46 AM.

  11. #236
    Fantastic Member Superfan90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I'm fine with Flash smoking Superman in super speed. It's just about all he brings to the table, at least let him be the clear best at it. I don't care for the Silver Age approach to the Justice League where it was Clark and his entourage of backup dancers unless we're making a cheesy hip hop video, and even then only if Bruce has an oversized Bat-shaped clock necklace.
    Sure, make him faster than Superman. But not on expense of Superman. Every tom, Dick and harry is now equal or close to Superman in strength. Why would Flash be an exception to that rule?

  12. #237
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    l would argue you are focusing on an aspect because that struck you.to be fair, Post crisis guy is very much average guy with muscles that he continually gets strong by taking sun protein shake . That might by why to you he seems that way.i used to think the same till i read older stuff.for me that will never be "the superman". It will just be a superman. It turns out clark is an incredibly intelligent man with out his strength. He is incredibly athletic and fast. He had to push and struggle during the goldenage to silverage transition. At first there was no solar radiation nonsense.So,he had to work and struggle in every aspect .
    Except I grew up on, not just Bronze Age Superman, but the Golden and Silver Age versions. The thing that always stands out among his many powers in pre-COIE stories to me is his strength.
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  13. #238
    Fantastic Member Superfan90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    Where does Supergirl rank on this chart? Isn't Supergirl supposed to be faster than Superman and can make sharper turns than Superman can?
    Supergirl is hardly faster than Superman.

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    He was tied to superman. Pretty much. Barry allen still isn't the fastest. I have no problem with flash being fastest. Saying the superman can't compete is where i draw the line.i only said flash should lose to prove a point.
    The point is that Superman is better than Flash at the one thing Flash specializes in.

    Superman's got like 10 other powers people associate with him before Super Speed. It's not silly or absurd or unfair to Superman for Flash to not only be the fastest, but to significantly outdo Superman because if Superman is just a hair's breadth slower than The Flash then he can do anything The Flash can with speed besides...win a race, which you're saying he should do anyhow.

    Also, to say that everyone stole everything from Superman is silly. Superman did not invent superpowers. He was the first modern superhero, but superhero comics are just heroic mythologies we know are fiction. Heroic epics without the guise of believing they're true. A being being supremely fast or supremely strong or flying through the sky long predates Superman. There's a reason Jay's wearing a hat reminiscent of Mercury. Superman himself is largely inspired by Hercules, for instance. His most defining modern comic being a straight parallel.
    Last edited by Dred; 10-18-2019 at 07:17 AM.

  15. #240
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    Where does Supergirl rank on this chart? Isn't Supergirl supposed to be faster than Superman and can make sharper turns than Superman can?
    I don't think that's been established for current Kara.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenzel Kim View Post
    No, the Flash family is ranked because this is a list of how the writer of the Flash comic thinks of "all" the super-speed characters in the DC Universe who'd come first in a race, so naturally the Flash characters are heavily featured.

    In fact I'd argue against it being an official list as it is clearly labeled that this list is based on the thoughts of one writer. I doubt other writers were sought out to get any kind of consensus on the matter so others might have a very different perspective.
    Well, he writes a book about super-speed, so maybe he's as close as the DCU has to an expert on these things :P?

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