Official Speed Ranking of DC Heroes & Villains (DC Nation #2)

[Sodam Yat]

I disagree with some of this.

For one thing, I don't really see how Superman, Wonder Woman and Cheetah should be up there. They should be by Shazam, if you ask me. It just makes those three feel more overrated.

I don't think Wonder Woman should be just as fast as the Cheetah. What makes Cheetah as an interesting adversary to Wonder Woman's is not just Wonder Woman being blessed by the Gods and Cheetah being cursed by the Gods, but the fact that she has advantages over Wonder Woman and vice-versa. Cheetah should be faster and more agile that should give Wonder Woman a disadvantage.

I would say it does make sense that Black Racer is behind Wally, Barry, and Thawne, since it's been proven they can escape from the Black Racer.

[Johnny Thunders!]

Superman is a one man Mount Olympus. He was created as an embodiment of all the gods of old. All the gods of speed, intellect, strength, and beauty are surpassed by Superman. Look at Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman. They both are direct reactions to Shuster and Siegel's Superman. Both characters explicitly appropriate the Greek Gods as a reaction to Superman. Superman should be as fast as the Flash, at least sometimes, because he is the human being who reaches the level of God-hood before any other character. Flash is just one aspect of the complete perfection that is, Superman.

[joemagnum611]

If Shazam is as fast as lightning then how in the hell are Wonder Woman, Cheetah and Superman faster than him?

[Jon Clark]

To me it's more a matter of degree. I prefer Superman to be the fastest, but could easily live with Wally or Barry being faster as long as the writers don't oversell it. To me the top 10 or 20 superfast characters are moving at speeds so fast that each is the only person aware of anyone moving faster, If Wally, Barry, Superman and Wonder Woman raced a million miles to everyone else they'd cross the finish line simultaneously. There wouldn't even be a device sophisticated enough to register which order they reached that point at. Wally and Barry might know which of them arrived first but even the 3rd place finisher might not be able to perceive how much time passed between #2 and #1 arriving ahead of them.

[9th.]

Catwoman should not be in the first position?

What the hell is going on here, were they standing completely still?

[Knightmare]

Speed Force nullifies any kind of draw back. Speedsters don't lack any stamina at all in fact they have rather crazy staminas.

Sorry but this has been a trope for a long time. Now I've not read any flash stories post flashpoint but this should still be the case. Any one who has can maybe chime in and let me know specific stories.

Granted the below are not 'cannon' examples, but this is a pretty common occurrence for speedforce characters.

[Skip to 2m31s]




Bonus

Just found this, the flash running from Darkseid's Omega Beams. It doesn't show him needing to eat loads of food, but it does show him getting tired which essentially leads to the same outcome.

He's a sprinter, not a long distance runner!

[JackDaw]

What the hell is going on here, were they standing completely still?

Not read. But apparently the Flashes were under Poison Ivy’s mind control. Batman in his usual omniscient way knows they are about to attack, but isn’t quite sure how to beat them. So decides to motivate the Cat by telling her he won’t discuss an important issue till the minor problem of the Flashes is resolved.

Pre-warned, she just assumed battle stances and waits for them to knock themselves out by running onto her foot...effectively she’s acting as a pre-cog.

Being generous, the thought that the Flashes actuallly want to get knocked out, to break the mind control might give scene a sliver of credibility. A cynic might think it’s an example of powersets being ignored...some people do think that happens in DC comics....

[Rend20]

Sorry but this has been a trope for a long time. Now I've not read any flash stories post flashpoint but this should still be the case. Any one who has can maybe chime in and let me know specific stories.

But it hasn't really been a trope in the comics since the concept of the Speed Force was introduced. Here and here are two panels that show the trope you are talking about no longer existed in the comics once the Speed Force came about.

[9th.]

Not read. But apparently the Flashes were under Poison Ivy’s mind control. Batman in his usual omniscient way knows they are about to attack, but isn’t quite sure how to beat them. So decides to motivate the Cat by telling her he won’t discuss an important issue till the minor problem of the Flashes is resolved.

Pre-warned, she just assumed battle stances and waits for them to knock themselves out by running onto her foot...effectively she’s acting as a pre-cog.

Being generous, the thought that the Flashes actuallly want to get knocked out, to break the mind control might give scene a sliver of credibility. A cynic might think it’s an example of powersets being ignored...some people do think that happens in DC comics....

That all sounds hilariously ridiculous, I might track that story down.

[Waterfall]

Sorry but this has been a trope for a long time. Now I've not read any flash stories post flashpoint but this should still be the case. Any one who has can maybe chime in and let me know specific stories.

Granted the below are not 'cannon' examples, but this is a pretty common occurrence for speedforce characters.

1- CWverse Flash is a depowered version of the character.

2- That's a pretty damn old comic and an AU.

3- That was an inexperienced Barry.

[Knightmare]

But it hasn't really been a trope in the comics since the concept of the Speed Force was introduced. Here and here are two panels that show the trope you are talking about no longer existed in the comics once the Speed Force came about.

Fair enough, the only thing I would point out is that those images are clearly pre-Flashpoint and therefore not strictly cannon. The New 52 plays by new rules where the Flash gets tired after running away from Omega Beams.

So it stands to reason that he suffers from stamina issues. Also most media(Justice League/Unlimited & The Flash (TV Show)) still show this as a thing.

[Knightmare]

1- CWverse Flash is a depowered version of the character.

2- That's a pretty damn old comic.

3- That was an inexperienced Barry.

Could you explain points 2 & 3 further?

(2) What is an old comic?

(3) What does his experience have to do with is stamina? (Genuinely don't understand the link)

[Rend20]

Fair enough, the only thing I would point out is that those images are clearly pre-Flashpoint and therefore not strictly cannon.

But you are using outside media as examples even though they have way less to do with the comics right now. You also implied it was still a trope Pre-Flashpoint which hadn't been true since around 1994.

The New 52 plays by new rules where the Flash gets tired after running away from Omega Beams.

That scan actually works against you because Barry mentions he's never been out of breathe before that. Saying he has stamina issues just because he got tired once in his entire career is a stretch. Not to mention one example could easily be a writer taking liberties that don't really mesh with what is considered the status quo. Stuff like that happens all the time in comics.

I mean, Superman was gassed after chasing Wally and Barry this past Flash issue while they had no problem continuing on.

[Waterfall]

Could you explain points 2 & 3 further?

(2) What is an old comic?

(3) What does his experience have to do with is stamina? (Genuinely don't understand the link)

2. An old comic is something before tons of retcons. The comic you posted is old in that sense. Also Barry before his death wasn't all versed in Speed Force, Speed Force nullifiying drawbacks like stamina came AFTER his death. So current Barry isn't hold to the standard you posted anymore.

3. You can expand your stamina after training. That's a well known fact. Barry in Origins is still a rookie. (He would be Flash for only a few months iirc)

[Confuzzled]

What the hell is going on here, were they standing completely still?

Ivy was mindcontrolling them and wanted them to capture Selina. But Rebirth Ivy has been established to be not a killer and not a villain so she may have instructed the Flashes not to harm Catwoman. For that to be possible, they had to slow down while approaching and trying to grab Cat. Selina though just seized the opportunity.

As simple as that.