Official Speed Ranking of DC Heroes & Villains (DC Nation #2)

[Knightmare]

But you are using outside media as examples even though they have way less to do with the comics right now. You also implied it was still a trope Pre-Flashpoint which hadn't been true since around 1994.



That scan actually works against you because Barry mentions he's never been out of breathe before that. Saying he has stamina issues just because he got tired once in his entire career is a stretch. Not to mention one example could easily be a writer taking liberties that don't really mesh with what is considered the status quo. Stuff like that happens all the time in comics.

I mean, Superman was gassed after chasing Wally and Barry this past Flash issue while they had no problem continuing on.

As I mentioned in the actual post what I mentioned were not cannon sources. I simply mentioned them to show that this is a trope that is still being used to this day. Also when I said it was still a trope I was referring to all media which is why I listed them in my post.

I don't really see how that works against me, if the Flash has never been pushed to run that fast before it further goes to show how badly he'd fair in a long distance run against the likes of Wonder Woman, Superman or Shazam. If your saying Superman was gassed the one time he was chasing after Wally and Barry do you not see how you've made the exact same argument you put to me. That could simple just be down the writer!

[Knightmare]

2. An old comic is something before tons of retcons. The comic you posted is old in that sense. Also Barry before his death wasn't all versed in Speed Force, Speed Force nullifiying drawbacks like stamina came AFTER his death. So current Barry isn't hold to the standard you posted anymore.

3. You can expand your stamina after training. That's a well known fact. Barry in Origins is still a rookie. (He would be Flash for only a few months iirc)

I meant to ask you which comic, the Justice one or the Justice League one? The Justice comic example was my attempt to show that this trope occurs in multiple elseworld universes not just the main one. The Justice League example was the only one I could think of that displayed what I was talking about, that Flash has largely remained Human in his weakness in the new 52 universe.

That being said I haven't read a lot of flash in the new 52, so any evidence counter to what I'm saying is welcome.

You can extend your stamina through training, but not enough to challenge Superman, Wonder Woman and Shazam. Unless it's been stated in the new 52 that the speedforce is taking of his stamina as shown by Rend20 in a previous post, I don't think you can make the claim that Barry's stamina is anything to write home about.

[Waterfall]

I meant to ask you which comic, the Justice one or the Justice League one? The Justice comic example was my attempt to show that this trope occurs in multiple elseworld universes not just the main one. The Justice League example was the only one I could think of that displayed what I was talking about, that Flash has largely remained Human in his weakness in the new 52 universe.

That being said I haven't read a lot of flash in the new 52, so any evidence counter to what I'm saying is welcome.

You can extend your stamina through training, but not enough to challenge Superman, Wonder Woman and Shazam. Unless it's been stated in the new 52 that the speedforce is taking of his stamina as shown by Rend20 in a previous post, I don't think you can make the claim that Barry's stamina is anything to write home about.

The Flash War in it's entirety is literally the proof of this. Barry only couldn't keep up with Wally after a while.

[Knightmare]

The Flash War in it's entirety is literally the proof of this. Barry only couldn't keep up with Wally after a while.

No Flash War is not proof of this. Wally is faster than Barry, I think we all agree on this and the looks of it. All Wally did was channel more of the speedforce or steal Barry's speed to get ahead.

On the other hand the following shows that even Batman thinks that they have stamina issues.

[JackDaw]

That all sounds hilariously ridiculous, I might track that story down.

Batman 42 apparently, almost worth tracking down for the artwork...certainly if rest of issue is as well drawn as extracts I’ve seen.

There’s something magical in the way Batman doesn’t blink an eye, not a difficult enough task to require his help...three speed gods taken out, just a boring interruption, because we can do more interesting things.

[KrustyKid]

Superman is a one man Mount Olympus. He was created as an embodiment of all the gods of old. All the gods of speed, intellect, strength, and beauty are surpassed by Superman. Look at Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman. They both are direct reactions to Shuster and Siegel's Superman. Both characters explicitly appropriate the Greek Gods as a reaction to Superman. Superman should be as fast as the Flash, at least sometimes, because he is the human being who reaches the level of God-hood before any other character. Flash is just one aspect of the complete perfection that is, Superman.

These days Superman just isn't in Flash's class when it comes to speed. He's a tier or two down

[Anarchist]

Wally being the Top Cat again is pretty sweet.

[Johnny Thunders!]

These days Superman just isn't in Flash's class when it comes to speed. He's a tier or two down

I know but I miss the time travel, and the idea that Superman could hurl himself through time, I just love it too much. Plus what's the point of the Flash Superman races if there's no ambiguity? It's like the Thing and the Hulk isn't it?

[KrustyKid]

I know but I miss the time travel, and the idea that Superman could hurl himself through time, I just love it too much. Plus what's the point of the Flash Superman races if there's no ambiguity? It's like the Thing and the Hulk isn't it?

Yah, a lot of characters have taken hard nerfs throughout the years. Pre-crisis Superman, there weren't many who could match his speed. He was on a whole nother level, his speed was insane.

[JackDaw]

I know but I miss the time travel, and the idea that Superman could hurl himself through time, I just love it too much. Plus what's the point of the Flash Superman races if there's no ambiguity? It's like the Thing and the Hulk isn't it?

Recently read the Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez collection...there were a ton of speed feats there. I’d almost forgotten that back in the day it was not just about fast flying or running...it was Flash type stuff like moving so fast between points that he appeared to be in two places at once.

I’ve always believed top level speed is an essential part of the armoury. Certainly most of the old stories featured him using it to finesse and trick opponents much more than using his strength.

[Johnny Thunders!]

Recently read the Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez collection...there were a ton of speed feats there. I’d almost forgotten that back in the day it was not just about fast flying or running...it was Flash type stuff like moving so fast between points that he appeared to be in two places at once.

I’ve always believed top level speed is an essential part of the armoury. Certainly most of the old stories featured him using it to finesse and trick opponents much more than using his strength.

I think that book is an excellent example of why Superman and speed go hand in hand.

[Stanlos]

I hate Superman being ridiculously fast he and Wonder Womand should be the last ones.

I so disagree. Supes, WW, and Captain Marvel should in the top 5

[married guy]

OK, my main issue is that Hunter isn't a speedster. That was a thing that set him apart from Thawne.
My other issue, as it is with many others is Superman should be ranked 9 or 10.
He's still super fast, but not in the same league as Wally, Barry etc.
One of the things I enjoyed about Flash Rebirth was the line where Superman reminds Barry the races were always close, and Barry replies "Those were for charity Clark" before leaving him eating dust.

[manwhohaseverything]

OK, my main issue is that Hunter isn't a speedster. That was a thing that set him apart from Thawne.
My other issue, as it is with many others is Superman should be ranked 9 or 10.
He's still super fast, but not in the same league as Wally, Barry etc.
One of the things I enjoyed about Flash Rebirth was the line where Superman reminds Barry the races were always close, and Barry replies "Those were for charity Clark" before leaving him eating dust.

That is an incredibly biased and one sided interpretation. Superman has always been able to keep up with flash. They have been nerfing superman for years. And making others more powerful at the same time. Now you want him out of top 5.
He is called "super"man. He had " super"speed before flash. So atleast treat he with some respect. If superman isn't super what is the point of having him.
And I could say the reverse the one of the few good things or maybe the only good thing of justice league movie was superman being able to keep up with the flash. And seeing him in hyperspeed

[married guy]

That is an incredibly biased and one sided interpretation. Superman has always been able to keep up with flash. They have been nerfing superman for years. And making others more powerful at the same time. Now you want him out of top 5.
He is called "super"man. He had " super"speed before flash. So atleast treat he with some respect. If superman isn't super what is the point of having him.
And I could say the reverse the one of the few good things or maybe the only good thing of justice league movie was superman being able to keep up with the flash. And seeing him in hyperspeed

Having Superman capable of travelling at the speed of sound is still pretty damn super!!
I strongly believe The Flash needs to be the 'Fastest Man Alive' or really, what's the point??

Superman has speed, flight, strength, x-ray vision, heat vision, freeze breath - just because I don't rank him top 5 in regards to speed, doesn't diminish his awesomeness!