Official Speed Ranking of DC Heroes & Villains (DC Nation #2)

[Superfan90]

Because Flash isn't super strong?

Could've fooled me with all that IMP crap.

[Stanlos]

Supergirl is supposed to be stronger than Superman and speed is sort of based on strength. A fast runner has stronger leg muscles. So by that logic Supergirl would also be faster than Superman.

That has been debunked at the conclusion of the very story arc in which it appeared.

But then again, post Flashpoint anything is possible

[manwhohaseverything]

My favorite run of Superman was John Bryne's MAN OF STEEL (followed by Joe Kelly's run). That's what got me to collect a Superman series for a number of years. Stopped collecting when the SUPERMAN: NEW KRYPTON series ended (I HATED how they resolved that storyline). But I still collect the Justice League books, and like how Superman is still "Superman" without relegating the other members of the team as either ineffective or redundant. I LIKE my Superman to be slightly handicapped, so that his feats are the more impressive artistically. You know, characterization over power-set? That's where I stand on the matter, hence, my original opinion that Superman should be the "slowest" on the "speedster" list, due to being more tied to the physics of the DCU. And, to clarify, being the "slowest" doesn't mean that special circumstances (such as a "sun dip") or intense training (which Superman did under the watch of Mongul) can't come into play. However, those factors will certainly differentiate Superman from your average Kryptonian, and certainly, this gives him an edge over his tradition rival/knockoff Shazam (who, in this continuity, has never had his powers/abilities "pressure tested" the way Superman, and even Wonder Woman, have).

Think of this in this way: Superman is a V6 engine, while the others are a V8. However, a V6 engine is much more efficient power-wise and dependable, and can last longer than a V8 engine (which consumes a lot more power, and can be highly inefficient in comparison). In other words, Superman is the standard workhorse of the DCU. He has the power to get the job done as needed, BECAUSE HE CAN.

But, this is just my opinion, of course...

I am going to be honest and blunt with. Byrne reboot sucked and took apart superman. Superman isn't human. Humanising him that way idiotic. It fundamentally broke the character. He basically made clark into a jock. Anyways, it wasn't byrne's fault either.
Yeah! None of these have really worked in a way that mattered.instead it basically puts people of from superman . Feats are not judged by handicaps.if that were the case goku would fighting with one arm tied behind his back. Feats are judged
1)how much the character earned it(sundipping nonsense is a major pain in the ass)
2)how much the character struggle he puts in to break his previous limit(go beyond plus ultra!)
You essentially, want superman relegated to a plot device with your should'nt be fast or strong until "sundipping" (which is a concept i despise). His training with mongol or his kryptonian martial art is never brought up or developed. Let's be real, clark isn't a martial artist. He is more of a boxer or strongman. That's his game. They should develop that. Instead of trying to fit something that can't fit into the character.
Everything you suggested has been done. Barely, works for the character. People complain superman as inconsistent plot device . Instead of running from the op nature of the character. Get people to accept it. Nobody cares if Dr manhattan or goku or allmight or one punch man are op. Tell entertaining stories.

[dswynne]

I am going to be honest and blunt with. Byrne reboot sucked and took apart superman. Superman isn't human. Humanising him that way idiotic. It fundamentally broke the character. He basically made clark into a jock. Anyways, it wasn't byrne's fault either.
Yeah! None of these have really worked in a way that mattered.instead it basically puts people of from superman . Feats are not judged by handicaps.if that were the case goku would fighting with one arm tied behind his back. Feats are judged
1)how much the character earned it(sundipping nonsense is a major pain in the ass)
2)how much the character struggle he puts in to break his previous limit(go beyond plus ultra!)
You essentially, want superman relegated to a plot device with your should'nt be fast or strong until "sundipping" (which is a concept i despise). His training with mongol or his kryptonian martial art is never brought up or developed. Let's be real, clark isn't a martial artist. He is more of a boxer or strongman. That's his game. They should develop that. Instead of trying to fit something that can't fit into the character.
Everything you suggested has been done. Barely, works for the character. People complain superman as inconsistent plot device . Instead of running from the op nature of the character. Get people to accept it. Nobody cares if Dr manhattan or goku or allmight or one punch man are op. Tell entertaining stories.

Nope. To put it simply: I want my heroes to earn their victories, via guts, ability and, most importantly, determination. And since we're talking about the post-Crisis Superman, one of the best things to happen to the character is that HE HOLDS HIMSELF BACK. He doesn't see himself as above everyone else, that is reflective of his upbringing, and desire to belong to his adopted homeworld. And Superman isn't simply just a strong man with a god complex; those type of stories featuring such a version of Superman tend to show up in such storylines like the INJUSTICE series, where he becomes a god among men because he has the power to do so. Not my bag, and certainly makes the character, to me, BORING.

And btw? Characters like Doc Manhattan, Goku, All-Might and One Punch Man are used as vehicles for OTHER characters to grow and develop, particularly in the case of OPM. Sure, their feats are "cool", but they don't grow as characters, in the way the supporting characters do. In fact, in some story arcs, that focus on power comes as a cost (example: Goku's love for battle, as a means of getting stronger, risks the existence of his entire universe).

Still, if I can take anything away from this conversation of ours, I can safely say that we both appreciate Superman in different ways. Interesting how that works...

[manwhohaseverything]

Nope. To put it simply: I want my heroes to earn their victories, via guts, ability and, most importantly, determination. And since we're talking about the post-Crisis Superman, one of the best things to happen to the character is that HE HOLDS HIMSELF BACK. He doesn't see himself as above everyone else, that is reflective of his upbringing, and desire to belong to his adopted homeworld. And Superman isn't simply just a strong man with a god complex; those type of stories featuring such a version of Superman tend to show up in such storylines like the INJUSTICE series, where he becomes a god among men because he has the power to do so. Not my bag, and certainly makes the character, to me, BORING.

And btw? Characters like Doc Manhattan, Goku, All-Might and One Punch Man are used as vehicles for OTHER characters to grow and develop, particularly in the case of OPM. Sure, their feats are "cool", but they don't grow as characters, in the way the supporting characters do. In fact, in some story arcs, that focus on power comes as a cost (example: Goku's love for battle, as a means of getting stronger, risks the existence of his entire universe).

Still, if I can take anything away from this conversation of ours, I can safely say that we both appreciate Superman in different ways. Interesting how that works...

Are you kidding me? Goku doesn't grow. All might doesn't grow. Get outta here with that nonsense. One punch man basically starves for growth . His biggest issue is not being challenged. That itself leads to his search for growth and competition. One punch man needs others to step up cause otherwise he existenitaly bored.you are basically saying superman shouldn't compete and should always be existentialy bored. Read a silverage book or goldenage book.how do you think superman went from leaping tall buildings to flying past infinity? It wasn't because he drank sun-protein shake. It was because he had to earn victories with things you mentioned like guts, determination and ability. He can get past that limit as well.

Since, when is holding back=earning victories or respecting humanity. That's nonsense. Holding back means he doesn't view humanity as any kind of competition or strong enough . Anyways, silverage guy also holds back. Him holding back meant something. Cause, the guy could do real damage. Who said superman is a strong guy with god complex? Dude, superman is meant to show that power doesn't always corrupt. What are you on about? He was created by jewish guys during the end of 30's and during 40's.you know when hitler existed. Guess what? Superman is powerfull. He is meant to be powerfull to show how those with power should act. That means not being authoritarian dictator or totalitarian . The creators didn't create the character for the purpose to show power corrupts. Injustice is the antithesis of superman. Superman fights for those who can't fight for themselves. His creators wanted to show that someone with integrity may never misuse the power if granted to them. Someone with power doesn't necessarily mean the oppressor of the weak. "champion of the oppressed" ring any bell.
All the post crisis reboot did was make clark into stereotypical farm boy who has everything handed to him. That ain't superman and will never be superman for me.For the record, superman is a strongman and vigilante. Its the core of the character. Why do you think he wears the trunks? Why do you think he has the chest symbol? It was a statement. The symbol used to be like a police badge.
Also superman doesn't mean just some normal guy with powers. He isn't that. Byrne reboot tried to make him that. Cut him off from his kryptonian heritage. Make him human the wrong way. Superman isn't human. But he is of earth.

[Frontier]

Could've fooled me with all that IMP crap.

What IMP thing?

[Agent Z]

Could've fooled me with all that IMP crap.

It doesn't make him super strong.

[JackDaw]

What IMP thing?

At a guess the Infinite Mass Punch...

As you suggested earlier it can all be explained away by the “speed force” (or speed magic as I tend to think about it).

The thing about the speed force..though...is that it gifts Flash with a massive armoury on top of moving fast...for example, ability to steal speed from objects or living beings, the ability to gift speed to objects or living beings, the ability to strike/ punch things or beings at super speed without being really hurt himself, the ability to create speed force constructs, the ability to run astounding distances without getting tired, ability to accelerate massively without being harmed by g forces, etc, etc

It’s been a long long time since Flash just had power to run super fast. As I’ve said before I often have to rub my eyes in disbelief when that old line of argument (“Flash can only run fast therefore has to be much faster than Superman...”) is trotted out.

[Agent Z]

At a guess the Infinite Mass Punch...

As you suggested earlier it can all be explained away by the “speed force” (or speed magic as I tend to think about it).

The thing about the speed force..though...is that it gifts Flash with a massive armoury on top of moving fast...for example, ability to steal speed from objects or living beings, the ability to gift speed to objects or living beings, the ability to strike/ punch things or beings at super speed without being really hurt himself, the ability to create speed force constructs, the ability to run astounding distances without getting tired, ability to accelerate massively without being harmed by g forces, etc, etc

It’s been a long long time since Flash just had power to run super fast. As I’ve said before I often have to rub my eyes in disbelief when that old line of argument (“Flash can only run fast therefore has to be much faster than Superman...”) is trotted out.

All his abilities still revolve around speed as opposed to the combo platter of powers Superman has.

Seriously, Superman has a reputation for being the biggest winner of the superpower jackpot in comics for a reason. I don't get where the complaints are coming from here.

[JackDaw]

Lol. Just removing one of my habitual clangers..a double posting. Over 2000 posts...and still not fully conversant with way this site operates....

[JackDaw]

All his abilities still revolve around speed as opposed to the combo platter of powers Superman has.

Seriously, Superman has a reputation for being the biggest winner of the superpower jackpot in comics for a reason. I don't get where the complaints are coming from here.

Things like controlling speeds of other objects is I think substantially different from ability to move own body at super speed.

An analogy might be if Superman could just move objects by power of thought alone, rather than having to be in contact with them. You could argue that it was still “strength based”..but I think most people would say instead that he then had telekinetic powers as well as super strength.

But really not a serious complaint on my part (admittedly a minor moan)...I just have a strong personal preference for Superman not being seriously outclassed in the super speed stakes. You know the sort of scene where Flash is shown to be moving so much faster that Superman can’t even track him. I don’t mind in the least Flash being faster..but I don’t like it when he’s say 20 times faster. Pure personal preference.

Let me give you an analogy. Imagine D.C. created a hero character whose only power was super intelligence. How would Batman fans feel if that character was used in a way that made Batman look stupid, totally outclassed?

Pretty sure Batman fans would be narked! And I don’t think they would be mollified by arguments along the lines of “well Batman is also a superb natural athlete, wonderful combat specialist, great singer, etc, etc”

[The Darknight Detective]

Things like controlling speeds of other objects is I think substantially different from ability to move own body at super speed.

An analogy might be if Superman could just move objects by power of thought alone, rather than having to be in contact with them. You could argue that it was still “strength based”..but I think most people would say instead that he then had telekinetic powers as well as super strength.

But really not a serious complaint on my part (admittedly a minor moan)...I just have a strong personal preference for Superman not being seriously outclassed in the super speed stakes. You know the sort of scene where Flash is shown to be moving so much faster that Superman can’t even track him. I don’t mind in the least Flash being faster..but I don’t like it when he’s say 20 times faster. Pure personal preference.

Let me give you an analogy. Imagine D.C. created a hero character whose only power was super intelligence. How would Batman fans feel if that character was used in a way that made Batman look stupid, totally outclassed?

Pretty sure Batman fans would be narked! And I don’t think they would be mollified by arguments along the lines of “well Batman is also a superb natural athlete, wonderful combat specialist, great singer, etc, etc”

As a fan of both superheroes (my two favorites), I agree with everything you said here.

[Jackalope89]

Flash (Barry and Wally) should be the fastest period, with their respective Reverse Flashes right there with them. Their whole thing is speed, after all. And a speedster not holding back has been shown, time and again, to be a dangerous thing.

But Superman is the next fastest, but also has super strength, invulnerability, heat vision, freeze breath... You get the idea.

[Lee]

Bruce Wayne doesn't have super-intelligence, so I would absolutely expect a character with super-intelligence to be more intelligent than him. If Brainiac out-sciences Batman, that's absolutely fine.

[JackDaw]

Bruce Wayne doesn't have super-intelligence, so I would absolutely expect a character with super-intelligence to be more intelligent than him. If Brainiac out-sciences Batman, that's absolutely fine.

Batman doesn’t have super intelligence?

Try running that one past the Batman forum.

He’s routinely rated as one of top three humans...Luthor, Bruce, Mr Terrific.