Official Speed Ranking of DC Heroes & Villains (DC Nation #2)

[Rightoya]

Forgot about him being there but those 3 should be the slowest ones.

Nah, i understand why Kid Flash and nerfed God Speed are below them(they have the potential to be clearly faster though).

[KurtW95]

I understand Jay, Bart, and Max are out of commission right now (and characters like Savitar are more obscure), so it makes sense that he isn't in the picture, but what about Hunter? You'd think he would be there.

[Rightoya]

Why? Superman is historically the only hero who could match Flash.

It's called SUPERspeed for a reason. Superman was fast before Flash was even a concept.

That is abpretty bad argument, because historically got Wonder Woman also created as perfect equal to Supes.
Quote by Wonder Woman creator William Moulton Marston:

“a feminine character with all the strength of Superman, plus all the allure of a good and beautiful woman.”

[Jim Kelly]

It would be nice to see what the caption box should have said about Barry. The thing about ginger Wally hints at something you see a lot these days--especially in the U.S.--where faith or spirtuality is elevated above good old fashioned smarts in fiction. To me Barry should be really good at using his powers, because he understands the science. It not only helps him with his speed but it helps him figure out how to defeat someone else or how to get himself out of a sticky situation.

I don't think it's good enough to just phase out of a trap because you have love in your heart or you believe in yourself. That mushy kind of logic seems like a cheat to me--a Nicholas Sparks way of side-stepping a difficult plot problem. Many people these days seem very anti-intellectual and want to argue that they're better than some university educated scientist. So ginger Wally plays to that sentiment. At least as far as this caption box portrays him.

Moreover, from a story perspective you can't really show faith in a comic book. You can write an allegory that demonstrates faith--but "Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen" [“Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.”] to quote Wittgenstein. It's much easier to show Barry using the scientific method to work out how to escape a trap or how to win more speed or how to foil a foe's plan. That's why I'd rather have a super-hero who is smart.

I can understand why a writer wouldn't want Barry to be the Fastest Man Alive from a story perspective. It gives Barry something to strive toward. Eventually he could be, but not right now. However, I don't think the faith over science argument should be the club used to beat him down.

[Superfan90]

That's a pretty bad argument though, cause historically got Wonder Woman also created as perfect equal to Supes.
Quote by WW creator William Moulton Marston:

“a feminine character with all the strength of Superman, plus all the allure of a good and beautiful woman.”

Except Marston never showed it in the comics. I can create a character and say he is stronger than Superman but until that shows in a comic featuring both, it's meaningless.

[WallyWestFlash]

Complete nonsense, the Sandals of Hermes don't amp speed at all and WW had anyways the Speed of Hermes on her own as she used the sandals.

And of course is WW known for her speed, did you just sleep for the last decades?



Cheetah is literally a supernatural Cheetah empowered by a God you genius...

But i find it pretty interessting that you start with strong WW and Cheetah lowballing, while Supes is above the goddamn Black Racer.

Damn!!! Calm down and take a chill pill guy. Are you feeling ok? There's a lot of anger coming from you out of nothing.

[Waterfall]

It would be nice to see what the caption box should have said about Barry. The thing about ginger Wally hints at something you see a lot these days--especially in the U.S.--where faith or spirtuality is elevated above good old fashioned smarts in fiction. To me Barry should be really good at using his powers, because he understands the science. It not only helps him with his speed but it helps him figure out how to defeat someone else or how to get himself out of a sticky situation.

Just because you are good at science doesn't make you the most powerful. This is a classic STEM vs Arts debate. Both have their own strengths but motivation is always going to trump over logic in my opinion. (since even science requires motivation to work out)

I don't think it's good enough to just phase out of a trap because you have love in your heart or you believe in yourself. That mushy kind of logic seems like a cheat to me--a Nicholas Sparks way of side-stepping a difficult plot problem. Many people these days seem very anti-intellectual and want to argue that they're better than some university educated scientist. So ginger Wally plays to that sentiment. At least as far as this caption box portrays him.

Moreover, from a story perspective you can't really show faith in a comic book. You can write an allegory that demonstrates faith--but "Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen" [“Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.”] to quote Wittgenstein. It's much easier to show Barry using the scientific method to work out how to escape a trap or how to win more speed or how to foil a foe's plan. That's why I'd rather have a super-hero who is smart.

Um faith and friendship is an essential part of shonen mangas. Especially in modern age where manga gained so much popularity worldwide, it's been hammered home over and over again that love and faith trumps all. You may not like it but this isn't anything new.

Besides manga, this isn't anything new for Flash comics either. Ever since Speed Force is introduced, the science aspect of Flash is cut out. Lightning rods etc. are proof of that. We had Wally beating Thinker by the sheer force of will in Johns series and your argument sounds a lot like how Thinker responded to defeat. Johns himself said in that run that intelligence wasn't what made Flash into a hero (at least for Wally).

I can understand why a writer wouldn't want Barry to be the Fastest Man Alive from a story perspective. It gives Barry something to strive toward. Eventually he could be, but not right now. However, I don't think the faith over science argument should be the club used to beat him down.

Barry is never going to (and shouldn't) be the fastest man alive. From storytelling point Wally is the student who surpassed his teacher and you can't come back from that. Wally will be succeeded by Bart and Wallace later on and that's how it is going to roll. (even though i doubt we will reach to that point but that's another topic)

Barry doesn't need the title anyways. He's the legend and the patriarch of family.

[Rakzo]

I'm okay with this.

[WallyWestFlash]

It would be nice to see what the caption box should have said about Barry. The thing about ginger Wally hints at something you see a lot these days--especially in the U.S.--where faith or spirtuality is elevated above good old fashioned smarts in fiction. To me Barry should be really good at using his powers, because he understands the science. It not only helps him with his speed but it helps him figure out how to defeat someone else or how to get himself out of a sticky situation.

I don't think it's good enough to just phase out of a trap because you have love in your heart or you believe in yourself. That mushy kind of logic seems like a cheat to me--a Nicholas Sparks way of side-stepping a difficult plot problem. Many people these days seem very anti-intellectual and want to argue that they're better than some university educated scientist. So ginger Wally plays to that sentiment. At least as far as this caption box portrays him.

Moreover, from a story perspective you can't really show faith in a comic book. You can write an allegory that demonstrates faith--but "Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen" [“Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.”] to quote Wittgenstein. It's much easier to show Barry using the scientific method to work out how to escape a trap or how to win more speed or how to foil a foe's plan. That's why I'd rather have a super-hero who is smart.

I can understand why a writer wouldn't want Barry to be the Fastest Man Alive from a story perspective. It gives Barry something to strive toward. Eventually he could be, but not right now. However, I don't think the faith over science argument should be the club used to beat him down.

I understand what your saying but I think Williamson is saying Wally has more of a natural ability and it's more instinctual. He did get his powers at a young age after all and grew up with them.

Barry might know the mechanics and rules behind the speed but that Dosent always translate to application of it or skills .

[Rightoya]

Except Marston never showed it in the comics. I can create a character and say he is stronger than Superman but until that shows in a comic featuring both, it's meaningless.

Uhm did you ever read Golden Age Wonder Woman, Marston let her catch up to Superman by replicating his feats(which is why we got first speeding bullets, locomotives and so on)?

[Rightoya]

Damn!!! Calm down and take a chill pill guy. Are you feeling ok? There's a lot of anger coming from you out of nothing.

Sry, but your post seemed pretty ignorant in my opinion. I mean it's of course no problem if someone don't have much knowledge about some fictional characters, but you rly shouldn't make such nonsensical claims instead of just asking then.

But well i rly shouldn't have reacted that harshly, my bad.

[SiegePerilous02]

Uhm did you ever read Golden Age WW, Marston let her catch up to Supes by literally replicating his feats(which is why we got first speeding bullets, locomotives and so on)?

He wasn't always consistent with it though. His version of Cheetah was a crazy woman in a costume, with no explicit supernatural powers, and she was able to outrace Wonder "Swifter than Mercury" Woman.

I agree that Superman should be closer to her in ranking though, though Cheetah should have the speed advantage over both of them.

[Waterfall]

I understand Jay, Bart, and Max are out of commission right now (and characters like Savitar are more obscure), so it makes sense that he isn't in the picture, but what about Hunter? You'd think he would be there.

He's not a speedster, he has chronokinesis powers. If you count him, he would be far ahead of anyone on this list.

[Rightoya]

He wasn't always consistent with it though. His version of Cheetah was a crazy woman in a costume, with no explicit supernatural powers, and she was able to outrace Wonder "Swifter than Mercury" Woman.

Even that should count as consistent with Golden Age Superman, he had his fair share of jobbing too after all.

I agree that Superman should be closer to her in ranking though, though Cheetah should have the speed advantage over both of them.

Yeah.

[JackDaw]

Why? Superman is historically the only hero who could match Flash.

It's called SUPERspeed for a reason. Superman was fast before Flash was even a concept.

Yes. How soon they forget.

Particularly liked the caption: “Unmatched when flying through the air, but once those two feet are on on the ground he can’t quite match the first three”.

So in other words he can fly faster than Flash can run. But obviously out of kindness to the many Flash fans, the picture itself can’t show that.