Official Speed Ranking of DC Heroes & Villains (DC Nation #2)

[The Darknight Detective]

Bruce Wayne doesn't have super-intelligence, so I would absolutely expect a character with super-intelligence to be more intelligent than him. If Brainiac out-sciences Batman, that's absolutely fine.

Yeah, Bruce should be as smart as a normal human can be, but not beyond that level without some outside help.

[Robanker]

Batman doesn’t have super intelligence?

Try running that one past the Batman forum.

He’s routinely rated as one of top three humans...Luthor, Bruce, Mr Terrific.

Wasn't that always top three men? I am willing to put Luthor as top dog any day, but after that I think it was always in reference to Holt's "third smartest man" and everyone assumed Bruce came in the middle there, but "man" does offer wiggle room. Pre-FP Barbara Gordon definitely was no slouch in intellect, as was Veronica Cale. Who knows?

Be that as it may, Batman's intelligence should register slightly above toaster to a well-read Coluan, but we all know DC editorial doesn't care about their universe making that much sense if it will get them a quick buck to pander.

[JackDaw]

Wasn't that always top three men? I am willing to put Luthor as top dog any day, but after that I think it was always in reference to Holt's "third smartest man" and everyone assumed Bruce came in the middle there, but "man" does offer wiggle room. Pre-FP Barbara Gordon definitely was no slouch in intellect, as was Veronica Cale. Who knows?

Be that as it may, Batman's intelligence should register slightly above toaster to a well-read Coluan, but we all know DC editorial doesn't care about their universe making that much sense if it will get them a quick buck to pander.

I agree. There are all sorts of candidates for No 2...apart from ones you mention...geezers like T.O. Morrow, Ray Palmer, Niles Caulder spring to mind. By quoting Luthor, Bruce, Holt as the "obvious" three I was going with what has happened when we have had votes on "most intelligent" in the past...a fair number actually regard Bruce as No 1, rather than Luthor...

Just this once I disagree with our colleagues the Darknight Detective and Agent Z": "Normal human intelligence" in DCU is rather different in DCU compared to our own Earth...Luthor, etc routinely do feats that require super intelligence. Indeed I would hope that even the most ardent Batman fan (I'm a fan myself) realises that Batman really doesn't "show what an ordinary human can do with guts and determination" (that old chestnut!!)...rather Batman shows how creative writers can be...he routinely achieves what is impossible for a human.

[Veladus]

I love how almost everyone dislikes this list, and everyone has different reasons for it.

It's a bad list if just for the structure. If Superman is #4, Supergirl would definitely make the top 10. Maybe other kryptonians like Zod too. Doomsday was as fast as Flash back in the day, but he's been a jobber since Imperiex and I don't know if he'd make it now. A case could certainly be made though. So, it looks like they only allowed one character from each "family"... except Flashes, which take up almost half the spots. I get that speed is their entire thing, but make it consistent. If you have to make the top 10 a top 25 to include "family" members, just do it. Also, I find it odd that no one has mentioned the true fastest person in DC. The real #1 is not only not on the list, no one in the thread even mentioned him that I saw.

Clark is the fastest there is.

No, not that one. The insane one. Superboy-Prime is worlds above everyone else, including Wally. As a SILVER AGE Kryptonian, he's broken to an extent that post-crisis characters can't hope to match. He speed blitzed 3 Flashes at the same time (Wally, Barry, and Jay IIRC). When he took off for Oa at the end of Infinite Crisis, everyone just kind of looked at each other and said "what the hell do we do now? No one can possibly catch him." Wally even admitted Prime is far faster.

As for the furry, he's not even breaking the top 10 for intelligence. Detective work is the only thing he's truly top tier at. DC has so many hypergeniuses it's not even funny. Barely anyone's even heard of Justin Ballantine and he made a machine that drained half the power in the universe into himself. Ray Palmer, Ted Kord, Thaddeus Silvana, T.O. Morrow, Mr. Terrific, Toymaster, the list is endless. Batman and his PrEp TiMe that just as often ends with Bane murdering Alfred is nowhere near #2. His only claim is plot shenanigans induced by his popularity. I doubt he's even smarter than Clark, who regularly outwits a rogues gallery that includes the smartest man on Earth and the smartest being in the universe. Hell, even some of Batman's own rogues like Hugo Strange and Bane have claims of being as smart as he is.

[Superfan90]

Just to bump this up, Supergirl is shown time travelling under her own speed in Batman/Superman Worlds Finest 2.

About time

[Rightoya]

Just to bump this up, Supergirl is shown time travelling under her own speed in Batman/Superman Worlds Finest 2.

About time

I am all for making Kryptonians, Wonder Woman, Shazam, Black Adam, and so on very powerful, but this is a bit different because i have to say:

This is stupid, now they either break countless of stories by turning any non-Speed Force user who goes faster than light into a time-traveler, or have to pretend this never happened.

We are talking about 1 of the powers with the biggest story breaking potential, and they have shown that there is an actual time barrier, and strongly implied that it is just going faster than light with the very specific mention of tachyons.

[Doctor Know]

Recently started rewatching YJ. I forgot how they did Wally dirty next to Barry and Bart.



This escape race of Barry chasing Bar Torr is still cool to look at.

[SuperX]

I am all for making Kryptonians, Wonder Woman, Shazam, Black Adam, and so on very powerful, but this is a bit different because i have to say:

This is stupid, now they either break countless of stories by turning any non-Speed Force user who goes faster than light into a time-traveler, or have to pretend this never happened.

We are talking about 1 of the powers with the biggest story breaking potential, and they have shown that there is an actual time barrier, and strongly implied that it is just going faster than light with the very specific mention of tachyons.

Kryptonians have auras that give them a edge in any of those other Uber powerful characters, that "could" be the reason why they can do this feat.

Or it could just be considered out of contuity like other things

[Frontier]

Recently started rewatching YJ. I forgot how they did Wally dirty next to Barry and Bart.



This escape race of Barry chasing Bar Torr is still cool to look at.

Back when Kid Flash had nothing to do with The Flash because of Bar-Torr.

[Rightoya]

Kryptonians have auras that give them a edge in any of those other Uber powerful characters, that "could" be the reason why they can do this feat.

Since when, i don't remember that ever being mentioned in Infinite Frontier or anywhere else? And nothing about this was portrayed as a Supergirl specific feat, much less in any way related to kryptonians.

Or it could just be considered out of contuity like other things

Batman/Superman Worlds Finest is considered to be out of continuity?

[NaVi]

flash's main power is his speed, yes, his other powers are born from speed, yes, that means he must be the fastest far above the rest of the dc heroes, no, because the same logic can be used with any character. SUPERMAN. strength, speed, heat vision, etc, are secondary powers (such as flash's super punch) his main power is to absorb energy, and if we follow the logic of flash fans, Superman's ability to absorb energy should be the greatest of dc, even greater than that of the Parasite, who with his simple presence came to absorb the Flash's Speed ​​Force, that means that in pure speed Flash> Superman, but in combat or race Superman absolves the Flash's Speed ​​Force which means Superman >Flash.

[Restingvoice]

Kryptonians have auras that give them a edge in any of those other Uber powerful characters, that "could" be the reason why they can do this feat.

Or it could just be considered out of contuity like other things

Dan Mora tweeted a response that BSWF is canon

I put the link in dick Grayson thread. I'm in mobile so I'm not going back to copy it.

[Zagre]

flash's main power is his speed, yes, his other powers are born from speed, yes, that means he must be the fastest far above the rest of the dc heroes, no, because the same logic can be used with any character. SUPERMAN. strength, speed, heat vision, etc, are secondary powers (such as flash's super punch) his main power is to absorb energy, and if we follow the logic of flash fans, Superman's ability to absorb energy should be the greatest of dc, even greater than that of the Parasite, who with his simple presence came to absorb the Flash's Speed ​​Force, that means that in pure speed Flash> Superman, but in combat or race Superman absolves the Flash's Speed ​​Force which means Superman >Flash.

But some Flashes like Wally have been shown to take speed awat from their enemies.

[JackDaw]

But some Flashes like Wally have been shown to take speed awat from their enemies.

They have.

But that ability must have fairly strict limits otherwise Wally (and other speed stealers) could win all fights in the blink of an eye by stealing all speed from their enemies.

But we’re yet to see the dialogue:

Clark: “Why hasn’t Darkseid caused any trouble for years?”

Bruce: “Oh, Wally drained him of all speed, he’s been completely stationary for 5 years. Left him in Central Park, everyone assumes it’s a statue.”

I must admit it doesn’t take much to trigger an anti-speed force rant.

[Zagre]

They have.

But that ability must have fairly strict limits otherwise Wally (and other speed stealers) could win all fights in the blink of an eye by stealing all speed from their enemies.

But we’re yet to see the dialogue:

Clark: “Why hasn’t Darkseid caused any trouble for years?”

Bruce: “Oh, Wally drained him of all speed, he’s been completely stationary for 5 years.”

I must admit it doesn’t take much to trigger an anti-speed force rant.

Uncontrolled power creep is one of the most tricky things about writing superpowers and plot devices , and the speed force is probably on of the most overused ones in DC 8at least in terms of scale).