Why Does Anyone Continue?

[The Dying Detective]

I also avoid reading things that I don't like. I've never felt disrespected by those companies, but I get why some people feel as they do. I have complaints, of course, I wasn't fond at the idea behind the N52, par example, but it didn't mean I was pissed off at DC and some cool stories came out of it

Well you'd think the number of people who felt disrespected would be so huge from how loud the complaints can be at times you'd think either company would have died by now.

[Lee Stone]

For me, it's mostly because I could care less what they do to Batman, Superman or Wonder Woman to gain attention from the media.
Those characters have reached the point where I just can't get invested in them.

I was more upset over Sue's rape/death, Ted's death (at the hands of Max, no less), Max being turned into a typical villain and killed off (by a hero), and the deaths of both Crimson Fox sisters.
And later when I discovered the real reason why the Strazewski JSA series was cancelled and the team was killed off.
Yes, these things did make me quit reading DC for long periods. And I still go in gunshy when a book is announced that I may like, because of their track record with non-Trinity characters.

[The Dying Detective]

For me, it's mostly because I could care less what they do to Batman, Superman or Wonder Woman to gain attention from the media.
Those characters have reached the point where I just can't get invested in them.

I was more upset over Sue's rape/death, Ted's death (at the hands of Max, no less), Max being turned into a typical villain and killed off (by a hero), and the deaths of both Crimson Fox sisters.
And later when I discovered the real reason why the Strazewski JSA series was cancelled and the team was killed off.
Yes, these things did make me quit reading DC for long periods. And I still go in gunshy when a book is announced that I may like, because of their track record with non-Trinity characters.

Yeah Identity Crisis and Infinite Crisis were prime examples of how disposable the lower tier characters can be to DC and Marvel. Still thos count as I was referring to scandals in general that upset and cause uproars so loud you'd think it time for either company to go under.

[DrNewGod]

I'm referring to the all these controversial things that both companies often to get publicity like Identity Crisis while well-liked it was a very controversial story. And One More Day which was simply a contrived story where the plot had to be forced in the direction Marvel wanted it to go.

Ah. So it's not so much a matter of scandal as that you seem to dislike editorial tactics intended to increase sales (however crass or temporary). I don't much like them either, but that is what companies do, particularly close to periods when they have to report performance: employ promotions.

Every story in comics is, in some regard, a stunt intended to get us reading, or keep us reading. Some work better than others. So while I may not agree with, or like, some of the stunts used over the years, I don't generally regard them as something that ought to fire my moral outrage unless they deliberately employ offensive content as part of the effort.

[The Dying Detective]

Ah. So it's not so much a matter of scandal as that you seem to dislike editorial tactics intended to increase sales (however crass or temporary). I don't much like them either, but that is what companies do, particularly close to periods when they have to report performance: employ promotions.

Every story in comics is, in some regard, a stunt intended to get us reading, or keep us reading. Some work better than others. So while I may not agree with, or like, some of the stunts used over the years, I don't generally regard them as something that ought to fire my moral outrage unless they deliberately employ offensive content as part of the effort.

Yup that's pretty much it if they are so desperate these summits they hold should be about discussing some other tactic to get new new readers not pulling the rug underneath the reader's feet. Generally a lot of the content has been considered offensive like sexualised heroines for instance though it has died down some what.

[DrNewGod]

Yup that's pretty much it if they are so desperate these summits they hold should be about discussing some other tactic to get new new readers not pulling the rug underneath the reader's feet. Generally a lot of the content has been considered offensive like sexualised heroines for instance though it has died down some what.

One reader's "rug pulled out from under their feet" is another's "cool twist." If I don't like the way that a title's moving, I move on and check back later. The other thing you can count on besides the inevitability of stunts, is that the next creative team will do something differently, sooner or later coming back to the kind of stories that you like.

[The Dying Detective]

One reader's "rug pulled out from under their feet" is another's "cool twist." If I don't like the way that a title's moving, I move on and check back later. The other thing you can count on besides the inevitability of stunts, is that the next creative team will do something differently, sooner or later coming back to the kind of stories that you like.

Okay goo point though soemtimes as I've observed a new creative team is not always the answer.

[skyvolt2000]

Yeah Identity Crisis and Infinite Crisis were prime examples of how disposable the lower tier characters can be to DC and Marvel. Still thos count as I was referring to scandals in general that upset and cause uproars so loud you'd think it time for either company to go under.

That will never happen.

You have too many stores that no matter how BADLY done things are with guys like Batman & X-Men-SOMEONE is going to BUY it. SOMEONE is going to order it SOMEBODY will always be there to complain and still buy it.

And those stores will NEVER invest in those other companies no matter how many sell out, get movie deals and so on I have met more fans of Wicked & Divine & Faith than I have of Teen Titans, Hal Jordan, Justice League and Superman.

No matter how successful a Black Panther or Static is outside of comics-there will be SOMEBODY to fight tooth and nail in any investment of them on the comic side.

I am like Lee-I am more concerned with what is done to the lower tier. Because those are the proprieties that need to be successful. Yet we see them trashed.

Marvel's film success-especially with Black Panther and even in trades with Ms Marvel & Moon Girl KILLING it-is sending a message that folks want to ignore. Sooner or later you have to stop shoving the same folks down everyone's throat. Because they have reached that saturation point.

Yup that's pretty much it if they are so desperate these summits they hold should be about discussing some other tactic to get new new readers not pulling the rug underneath the reader's feet. Generally a lot of the content has been considered offensive like sexualised heroines for instance though it has died down some what.

The issue is you have go after a certain group who many of your current readers don't care for. Because that group likes folks who many readers don't care for.

KIDS. Kids who like OG Wally West, Static, John Stewart, cartoon Cyborg, Jessica Cruz, Vixen, Legion and Young Justice. All characters that have been trashed in comics.

What good is Young Justice if half the roster don't appear in comics or have trades out? You might not get them in a comic book store but trades with them still bring you profit.

[Ascended]

I love to read comic books....... so I read comic books.

That's basically it for me as well.

I read what I enjoy. The things I don't like, I don't read. If a day comes when there are no comics being published that I enjoy, then I won't be reading comics anymore. And I've come awfully close to that point a few times over the last twenty-some years.

The irksome 'scandals' as the OP describes them, don't usually make or break a title for me. The Bat marriage didn't happen? I can't say I'm too surprised. And if it did happen, I wouldn't expect it to last. Because that's how things work in comics. It always comes back around the all powerful god that is the marketable status quo. It's just how it is in comics. And soap operas. Hell, even Star Wars went back to the marketable status quo of an evil Empire and the plucky rebels, lead by Princess Leia, trying to stop them.

For me, it's the execution of the gimmick, more than the gimmick itself, that will make me leave a book.

[The Dying Detective]

That will never happen.

You have too many stores that no matter how BADLY done things are with guys like Batman & X-Men-SOMEONE is going to BUY it. SOMEONE is going to order it SOMEBODY will always be there to complain and still buy it.

And those stores will NEVER invest in those other companies no matter how many sell out, get movie deals and so on I have met more fans of Wicked & Divine & Faith than I have of Teen Titans, Hal Jordan, Justice League and Superman.

No matter how successful a Black Panther or Static is outside of comics-there will be SOMEBODY to fight tooth and nail in any investment of them on the comic side.

I am like Lee-I am more concerned with what is done to the lower tier. Because those are the proprieties that need to be successful. Yet we see them trashed.

Marvel's film success-especially with Black Panther and even in trades with Ms Marvel & Moon Girl KILLING it-is sending a message that folks want to ignore. Sooner or later you have to stop shoving the same folks down everyone's throat. Because they have reached that saturation point.



The issue is you have go after a certain group who many of your current readers don't care for. Because that group likes folks who many readers don't care for.

KIDS. Kids who like OG Wally West, Static, John Stewart, cartoon Cyborg, Jessica Cruz, Vixen, Legion and Young Justice. All characters that have been trashed in comics.

What good is Young Justice if half the roster don't appear in comics or have trades out? You might not get them in a comic book store but trades with them still bring you profit.

Maybe you have but maybe you are looking in the wrong places for fans of the Big Two. Also I'm just talking about how loud the voices are that there it leaves the impression that neither can recover from the nonsense they pull every now and then. You'd think with all this spin off material for Black Panther it would be a sign that Marvel was listening to what fans want but it doesn't help when you have someone like Coates writing him. And I in no way dosagree that the lower tier characters have been shabbily treated though you have to wonder what is in Marvel and DC's head when they barely have any confidence in them. At least the Question is coming back but I hope it's the right one. I can't tell how Jessica Cruz has been shabbily treated though. There have been attempts to try and write Cyborg to be more like his cartoon counterpart not that it sounds all that successful. I guess John Stewart being the leader of the Green Lantern Corp and being at the centre of Snyder's new Justice League run isn't helping either then?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

In light of this unfortunate conclusion of the Wedding in Batman. I found myself asking a big question for all this is why is everyone complaining about Marvel and DC when there are people still buying their stuff?

I'm a bit confused about what you're saying here. Are you asking why bother reading DC/Marvel when they pull stuff like this past Batman issue? I mean, would I have liked things to turn out different? Yes. But I wouldn't say that it really affects me enough to put me off of comics...

[Dr. Skeleton]

Yeah, I think it was wrong for DC to hype up the wedding and then turns out to be our "gotcha" moment. Just as bad as the birth of the New 52. I've just been following the BatCat wedding until that issue and will not pick up any further issues. As for why people keep buying both Marvel and DC after seeing their characters getting butchered,...glutton for punishment? Or wishing they could just quit them but can't help picking up more issues? I was a huge Marvel fan until the mid 90's and stopped buy DC during the events of Final Crisis. If I'm not gonna enjoy these books anymore, there's just no point in buying them and getting hurt more. I guess for others, it's hard to let go.

[WonderScott]

Specifically regarding the wedding, I'm in it for the long haul because I enjoy King's writing and the focus on Batman and Catwoman is enjoyable and long overdue. There was no promise of wedded bliss and I don't really see it as a bait-and-switch or insult to fans because it was always a possible outcome. Welcome to serialized storytelling and drama, especially with two of the greatest "will they or won't they" romantic partners in all of fiction. After actually reading the issue, I'm even more intrigued about where Bruce and Selina will be heading, because of reasons I won't spoil. It's clear the story isn't over yet, but in everyone's desire to know what's going to happen and have it resolved right now the way they imagined it or have Batman and Catwoman be "their" version of Batman and Catwoman, they miss out on stepping into the groove of an artist telling the story, in this case, he wants to tell and enjoy it even if it doesn't meet your personal expectations. Welcome to art and differing POVs and storytelling styles.

Otherwise, don't waste your time reading it, waste your money supporting it, or waste your emotional energy on these boards and elsewhere trying to bring down the storyteller or people enjoying the story with an amount of equally fast-acting and slow-burning venom that even Cheshire can't buy wholesale.

I like discussions about who characters should be or shouldn't be as much as the next person, but the relentless and inconsequential "hate" espoused for a writer like King or Snyder or fill-in-the-blank is as equally tiring as it is ridiculous. Don't buy the the title a save yourself the grief.

The NYT spoilage is another, separate matter. It sucks and I feel for those who wanted to go in blind, but it was a mistake on their part and welcome to the modern world of PR.

Generally, I vote with my dollars. I try new books regularly. If I'm not vibing with the story or characterization or direction of a title of a character I love or am obsessive about, I just don't buy the title. I try to be zen regarding the idea that not every writer/artist/editorial's take and run is going to be made for me. And that's okay - it's art and always going to adapt and change and tap into what creators bring to the characters and their mythos. I don't have to buy it and if I don't like it my opinion isn't going to change someone's enjoyment of it. If anything, I've gained new insight about a character by listening to what someone loves about an incarnation I'm not feeling. Sometimes that's won me over, because of someone's passion or that they gave me something new to consider.

[My Two Cents]

And this is why I just buy trades.
It took me years to give up floppies.........
Wednesday was my comic book day.
The day I visited the comic shop and got my week supply of comics.
It is something I really got fully into in 1980 when I got my first full time job
and something I enjoyed very much until ten years ago and than D C and
Marvel just kept reinventing there lines with New this and All New that and
event after event
And still I had to buy issue to issue and follow because that is what I did each Wednesday
and although it was becoming more and more not fun and I was not reading more
and more of my new books each week, I conditioned my self to believe nothing could be better than
following a series of books as they came out and than...........

I jumped and did not go to the comic shop for a week and another and another and than I
got one trade and I liked it and another and liked it and got books with old material and liked it
and again and again while still not going back to the comic shop and floppies.

I still have my Batman Deluxe vol.2 too read and if it is as good as volume #1, I will
surely buy volume #3 and possibly even an omnibus or two......... again emphasis on possibly

[Atomic Man]

I've had points (specifically and most intensely, the New 52) when I refused to continue. I didn't buy anything and actively protested as much as I was able to via social media. When the nightmare of the Snyderverse hit, I boycotted all WB material as well, which I'm still doing today.

In light of what Bendis has done to Superman and the Super Family, what it seems is going to happen with Heroes In Crisis and the coming of a new Crisis event without the input and care of Geoff Johns, I am again boycotting all DC books by no longer paying to read them. I will read them in store and be there to criticize them as vocally as possible through social media until there are positive changes again. At this point, though, I think it's too late. Many people never came back after the New 52 and for those that did, Rebirth was DC's last chance. Now that DiDio and Lee have more control than ever and they're brought over a man who's best creative achievements are over a decade in the past (Bendis), I don't see DC faring any better than they did when the novelty of the New 52 wore off. A few titles will do well, but as more and more changes to Superman and other characters are revealed, we'll see another implosion.

Until Dan DiDio is gone, I will not pay for another DC comic and will only read them to stay current.