Well, my response to that would probably be that these "soap opera-esque" twists and plot developments are part of why people buy comics in the first place. You don't want everything to go smoothly for the hero after all because otherwise there'd be no conflict, whether we're talking literal or personal conflict. This past Batman issue seems more along the lines of that as opposed to any editorial mandate or interference insisting on a specific status quo.
I've perma-dropped a alot of books in the last few years. People do it all the time. That's why sales go down instead of up. Cancellation territory was over 100,00 copies a month when I was a kid and now it fluctuates around 15,000. Tells me that lots of folks drop books and never come back.
I also tend to sell off my stuff when I drop it. Pretty much why I only have around 2000 comics after collecting for over 4 decades.
Loud mouthed fans on the internet are not representative of the average buyer. Most people don't buy things that they do not enjoy just to bitch about it. Especially for years. They just stop.
It always bugs me when people say that folks don't drop stuff. Yeah, it's true for the small percentage of fandom that lives on the internet but the overwhelming majority of readers, it's not. Just ask your retailers how many of their customers they have that they had 10 or 15 years ago.
That being said, this wedding thing isn't going to effect my buying at all. While I wish it went through, I only half expected it to in the first place. Not the end of the world and definitely not the worst thing to ever happen in a comic I read.
Last edited by DevilBat66; 07-05-2018 at 10:16 AM.
Batman - Daredevil
I tend to buy a lot of comics, but when something sours me I'm going to cull down the pull list for a while.
Why do I continue buying at all? Because I've been reading long enough not to over-react to a one issue twist that reeks of "temporary".
Example" Wally's very temporary "death" in recent issues of Titans. No reason to panic, and quickly undone.
I also have a great fondness for the secondary characters, and know that when sales are really low on a 2nd/3rd tier character, they're not going to cancel the book and bring it right back. They are more likely to cancel the book and shelve the character for a good 5 years before bringing them back. I'm currently disheartened by the shelving of Lillith/Omen, Mal, Garth, Bumblebee in Titans because I know darn well it's going to be forever before we see them again. (Ugh).
So, I'm willing to read less-than-perfect runs (aren't most of them?). What I'm not willing to read is a run that utterly destroys a character and turns them into something I don't recognize. Or boring runs on the big 3 (or big 7 really) that just don't interest me. Droppped the GL books during nu52 for instance, and Green Arrow as well.
I'm likely to pick up a so-so run of JSA, Hawkman, Booster Gold. But I wouldn't buy a run of JSA where the roster is full of people with no connection to the team, or Hawkman is flat out bland and directionless (previous run). I dropped the X-Men for ten years because of too many All-New! All-Different! directions where storylines were dropped in the middle and unresolved. I dropped Avengers for 7 years because they seemed to have no purpose.
Well either way it's kind of ridiculous to boycott something only to come back to it but yeah nevertheless it's probably those things that make peole come back to DC and Marvel regardless of the things they have done and even if a some people drop them it's often no big loss.
"Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he
You are exactly correct. People seem to place more emphasis on "I want the characters to be happy!" rather than "I want good stories". You don't have good stories without tension, conflict, drama, betrayal and so forth. Clearly the story of Batman and Catwoman is unresolved. Let's see how it plays out before denouncing DC as a corrupt entity intent on screwing over loyal readers.
This whole thing reminds a lot of when Ned Stark was killed on Game of Thrones. Always remember that "kill your darlings" is a rule of fiction.
Finally, I'm not defending bad storytelling. Clearly much or even most superhero comics range from forgettable to lousy. But a story isn't necessarily bad just because things don't go the way you want them to.
I want to add that in some cases DC does show that they turn around, like for example from New 52 to Rebirth. The classic pairings are being paired again, Wally's brought back... sure, the screw it up again, but at that time it was a definitive sign that they listen to fans.
After that, it depends on the fans. Some refuse to take the bait until they see a return to proper form, some jumped in straight away, and others are more cautious, ready to drop them at the first sign of trouble.
That's me too. I felt that the 1-900 gimmick used with Jason Todd's death back in the 80s was absolutely deplorable so I quite reading Batman and DC at that time. I find the marketing gimmick used for Batman #50 to be likewise so again I've dropped Batman and DC. I may come back again later as I did before but for the moment I loath how this was handled and hitting DC in the wallet is the only way, aside of a letter which I've already done, to make that displeasure known.
Supporting LION FORGE COMICS and other independent publishers.
Check out Lion Forge's Catalyst Prime Universe. Its the best damned superhero verse in comics. Diverse characters and interesting stories set in a universe where anyone can be a hero. And company that prides itself on representation both in the comics themselves and in the people behind them.
Oh my goodness gracious! I've been bamboozled!
When we hit our lowest point, we are open to the greatest change. AVATAR AANG
If they didn't screw it up in the first place you wouldn't need to hear it from fans.
Trashing certain characters for your pets only added fuel to the first. Especially when many of the removed sold books and had stronger following than who you tried to force on fans in the first place.
As for the soap opera aspect-you can't expect fans to keep buying depressing stories all the time or get beaten down by the SAME crap. How many times can John Stewart be called out for that planet? Hal's girl killed his wife. Or how many more times can Cyborg cry about Daddy not loving him or getting hacked or torn up by Dc's version of Black Panther.
If you truly listen to fans the same crap does not keep getting repeated.
Last edited by The Dying Detective; 07-05-2018 at 11:03 PM.
"Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he
I mean...I only buy titles where there's an element of trust already there. That means a writer who I trust to tell me a story I know I'll enjoy all the way through (right now, that's Priest and Tynion), or a character I've loved long enough that I can deal with some out of character stuff just to see them progress (Stephanie Brown and Helena Bertinelli for me). Very occasionally I'll take a chance on something new, like I currently am on Nightwing. However, those chances are really few and far between. I keep my buying pretty low (only about one or two titles a week), and Detective Comics is the biggest name of those titles. I've found that the bigger name books are usually the ones that disappoint the most, because editorial tends to mess with those the most (or the writers preemptively meddle with them to avoid editorial).
So I don't buy crossovers or events. I don't buy the big titles. Knowing what you like, and being able to find joy in that narrow band of things I think is the way to go. If you put too much hope or emotional weight on the big things that can't carry them, or in too many series so the overall quality of a line can sap at your energy, I think it can cause more problems. So I keep it small, and the stuff I love intensely, and I've been pretty happy for three years.
"We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
"All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
"There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown
Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews, Stephanie Brown Discord
Well that's what you do I'm mind boggled by how DC and Marvel still sell and some people think it's their fault for creating a culture where people still buy from them regardless of any feelings of disrespect. As far as buying anything from them i generally refrain from comic book collecting in general because of how expensive it can be in the long over here they cost twelve Ringgit for a floppy.
"Excellent!" I cried. "Elementary," said he
But there is a sense of despair, or even just boredom, when you know the characters will never get ahead. Over at Marvel, I dropped Spider-man after One More Day not because I didn't want a single Peter parker but because the story effectively removed any drama from Spider-romance. If the goal was to avoid a married Spider-man then regardless of who Pete dated the end result would ALWAYS be a break-up. I didn't need to see peter date to enjoy a story, but since one of the stated goals was to open up his dating pool according to Quesada and Breevort it seemed that would be a focus. Having also seen Aunt May and Harry Osborn resurrected meant death wasn't going to stick for characters here either. So I stepped off the merry-go-round.
I can easily see someone having come to the same conclusion about DC. Going from a young Superman who dated Diana to a return of the Pre-Flashpoint status quo could convince you Superman is just going to keep running in place and that anything interesting that occurs is just a blip that isn't worth getting attached to. Or maybe you finally realized that even 20 years in the role isn't enough to prevent having the status quo steal your hero's spot? Or having that dead character suddenly come back to life (Jason) or that living character suddenly revised to have been long dead (the Kents). I mean at some point it hits you that you've seen it all before and that the next big story twist for 2019 is exactly where you came in a few decades ago.