Astonishing X-men 13 (Spoilers)

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I'm not sure that Lorna and the others would have time to watch over Alex and his group and still do their own thing, though if they do then I could see them merging the teams sometime down the road into a new one...

[Havok83]

See Emma what? Emma went to Jean Grey Institute and made amends with Kitty Pryde and the rest of Storm's X-Men at this time. And it being pre-SW doesn't matter, it's AXIS that is blamed for being being a supervillain of a caliber beyond Mystique (who the X-Men are getting along fine with at he moment) And what's PhoeniX Rez?

Mothervine is why he's labeled a supervillian. AXIS was years ago and he didnt really do much in that arc. Rockslide mentions Havok was a villian not too long ago and that was MV, which was referenecd here. It caused a global catastrophe. Alex's role was behind the scenes in Blue but it wouldnt be too hard for that to be exposed by any number of mutants that Sinister worked on that got free.

Mystique went to the school to attend Rictor's funeral. She's obviously welcome to visit like any other X-Men, unlike Havok.

No she dindt. That was an illusion

[DurararaFTW]

Mothervine is why he's labeled a supervillian. AXIS was years ago and he didnt really do much in that arc.

Even if you feel Havok did comparatively little, near everyone else was effected in AXIS as well. A lot of them tried to kill others and then got over it immediately because they understood what happened. Tony continued to be AXISed for months afterwards, until they forgot about for both him and Havok tho not for Sabretooth.

Rockslide mentions Havok was a villian not too long ago and that was MV, which was referenecd here. It caused a global catastrophe. Alex's role was behind the scenes in Blue but it wouldnt be too hard for that to be exposed by any number of mutants that Sinister worked on that got free.

If it was a global catestrophy and Havok was publicised as the cause for death and devastion in every country on the planet he would not be walking around.

No she dindt. That was an illusion

For whom was the illusion intended?

[Havok83]

Even if you feel Havok did comparatively little, near everyone else was effected in AXIS as well. A lot of them tried to kill others and then got over it immediately because they understood what happened. Tony continued to be AXISed for months afterwards, until they forgot about for both him and Havok tho not for Sabretooth.

Okay? All of that is irrelevant to Alex. The extent of what he did was abducting Wasp and threatening to kill her. He didnt go on to be some global terrorist after that and he did nothing bad until Mothervine. He was rather lowkey and kept to himself.

If it was a global catestrophy and Havok was publicised as the cause for death and devastion in every country on the planet he would not be walking around.

Yet he is. The fact that the Avengers didnt arrest him despite labeling him as a wanted criminal is puzzling and something inconsistent with the text.

For whom was the illusion intended?

Illyana. Did you even read the book? It was a key plot point and the premise behind the entire issue

[Heroine Addict]

Again, Havok is the one that stopped Emma, Magneto and Storm's shared plans for Inhuman extermination that the three of them had been working on for months. ...

How'd he do this again... just by letting BB go? And who knows about it? 'Cause...

IGN.com, 5 Huge Twists From Marvel's Inhumans vs. X-Men Finale

... 3. Havok Betrayed the X-Men.

Havok has had a strained relationship with the X-Men ever since his mind was warped in 2014's AXIS crossover, and that relationship has only grown more complicated since the death of his brother, Cyclops. Havok proved that his loyalty to his late brother outweighed his commitment to the X-Men when he helped Emma escape the battlefield and avoid paying for her crimes. As he told Emma, he was merely doing one last favor for her in memory of his brother. ...

BleedingCool.com, [SPOILERS] And The Winner Is…No One – IvX#6 Review

... What it does wrong:...

... Basically everything which happens with Havok. His motivations are pretty unreadable. Throughout the series this has been the case, but even more so in this issue, particularly when he saves Emma, considering at the start of the issue he blamed her for what has become of the memory of his brother. ...

Seriously can't believe you're so hung up on this. I mean, you're complaining about inconsistencies, yet hinge most your argument around that crapfest. I stopped reading it right after #1, BTW, as I understood it sucked hard by #2... and only got worse, from there.

... No one thinks of Storm as being associated with Emma for having working with her for all that time. Nor even Magneto. ...

It's apples to oranges, so why would they?

... You say X-Men Blue wasn't sanctioned yet being in opposition with them for one story arc united the whole suoerhero community against Havok. ...

It's been ongoing since about this time last year, and only just wrapped up, with the recent MotherVine arc you allude to.

... Mystique went to the school to attend Rictor's funeral. She's obviously welcome to visit like any other X-Men, unlike Havok.

*sigh* Ummm... that was all an illusion, created by Karma's brother Tran, via what some fans are speculating is his possession of Dani Moonstar. So irrelevant, 'cause you know, it wasn't REAL. Ya got this part right, tho, so there's that.

[DurararaFTW]

Okay? All of that is irrelevant to Alex. The extent of what he did was abducting Wasp and threatening to kill her. He didnt go on to be some global terrorist after that and he did nothing bad until Mothervine. He was rather lowkey and kept to himself.

Havok not being unAXIS isn't some secret to the world. Sabretooth who joned the X-Men, Tony, who rejoined the Avengers and is here on the site and Wasp know all about it.

Yet he is. The fact that the Avengers didnt arrest him despite labeling him as a wanted criminal is puzzling and something inconsistent with the text.

At least we can agree something id weird and inconsistent.

Illyana. Did you even read the book? It was a key plot point and the premise behind the entire issue

Why was it important for Illyana to think that Mystique cares that Rictor died?

[Havok83]

Havok not being unAXIS isn't some secret to the world. Sabretooth who joned the X-Men, Tony, who rejoined the Avengers and is here on the site and Wasp know all about it.

Why was it important for Illyana to think that Mystique cares that Rictor died?

I still dont get your point so Ill just move on

We dont know and it doesnt matter. The point is, that wasnt real so your earlier point is invalid

[DurararaFTW]

I still dont get your point so Ill just move on

We dont know and it doesnt matter. The point is, that wasnt real so your earlier point is invalid

If Tran and Illyana both have the impression that Mystique is enough a member of the X-Men that she'll go to X-Men social occasions with the rest of her team like remembering the life of a New Mutant she couldn't pick out of a line if her life dependedon it then I'd argue we are probably meant to think that is indeed the case, illusion or not. This is Kitty X-Men, yes to Mystique, no the Havok, knowing full well he's not brainwashed abnymore.

[Heroine Addict]

I'm not sure that Lorna and the others would have time to watch over Alex and his group and still do their own thing, though if they do then I could see them merging the teams sometime down the road into a new one...

OMG, this is scary... it was the first thing I began contemplating too, right after it was mentioned. Well, even before that, actually. As this Astonishing concept, feels like a building block to me, in many ways.

[cc008]

I read this today and really enjoyed it. Looking forward to the next issue and to see where it goes. Glad to see Banshee back!

[Heroine Addict]

... then I'd argue...

Havok (comics) - Wikipedia

... During the AXIS storyline, the Red Skull and Scarlet Witch accidentally morally invert various heroes and villains. Havok is among those affected by the inversion spell. He resigns from the Avengers Unity Division and reconciles with his brother. Havok remains corrupted after the other heroes and villains are returned to normal where Havok and Sabretooth have been unintentionally 'protected' from the reversion by a shield generated by Iron Man prompting him to join Cyclops's team after using the Wasp as a hostage to escape.

All-New, All-Different Marvel

Havok was later seen observing afar with Emma Frost the funeral of his brother Cyclops. Because he does not believe his brother had become suicidal at all and was convinced that Scott was actually alive but in hiding, Emma tells him the truth about what truly happened in the confrontation with the Inhumans. Emma takes Alex to see his brother's dead body and reveals that Scott was one of the victims of the Terrigenesis clouds. She used a telepathic projection of him to rally mutant attempts to destroy a Terrigenesis cloud, subsequently faking his death in a final confrontation with Black Bolt.

After the truth of Emma's actions are revealed at the conclusion of the war against the Inhumans which ended with Medusa destroying the Terrigenesis cloud to save the mutants, Havok saves Emma when the mutants and the Inhumans turn on her, but makes it clear that he is only doing this out of respect for his brother's memory and his old feelings for Emma rather than forgiving her for what she did to Cyclops' reputation. Havok then began working with the White Queen, Bastion and Miss Sinister to infect the world’s population with the Mothervine virus, thereby making mutants the dominant species on the planet until he was eventually inverted back to his normal self by Emma Frost and Lorna Dane, and Elixir soon afterwards cured his scars.

This constitutes the final entries, in their entirety, and uninterrupted.

[9th.]

I like how Santos addressed Havok, "you were a villain like 30 seconds ago"

I also hated Iron Man in this issue

[LoganAlpha30X33]

More of Alex being treated like crap by everybody, or just as Scott's little brother...

But yeah the two teams could/would mix and move on from there and if Lorna was a part of that other team...whether pairing them back up then or not...

[Heroine Addict]

I like how Santos addressed Havok, "you were a villain like 30 seconds ago"...

Par for the course, with the X-peeps.

... But yeah the two teams could/would mix and move on from there and if Lorna was a part of that other team...whether pairing them back up then or not...

Providing they're both still single, that is. So... Havok, Dazzler, Banshee, & Warpath + Polaris & Iceman... is that what we're thinkin'? Who else could there be? Besides Moonstar, I mean. And/or Sunfire, Frenzy.

[bearman]

I certainly hope Banshee and Dazzler put an end to the traitorous Mystique