The Flash #33

**Mia** · 07-25-2014, 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by Melwicker

There are people like me who enjoy Barry Allen as the Flash in the New 52. There are people like me who are fans of Barry Allen. Many of us get annoyed and upset at feeling that the Wally West fandom is continually complaining.

What does one have to do with the other? I like Barry Allen as the Flash too. But that does not negate the fact that Wally (as well as other characters) have been poorly written. People have a right to make comments regarding what they read in a comic book. Many of the complaints regarding Wally have less to do with how he has been portrayed in the past. As opposed to the just plain and awful hamfisted characterisation and poor storytelling. You don't have to agree with it. But thus far you haven't provided any evidence as to why the issue is good or why (if that is the case) you think the portrayal is adequate.

And by the way, telling people you'll be adding them to your 'ignore list' is against CBR rules.

**PennyDreadful** · 07-25-2014, 06:02 AM

I'm staying away from Barry vs. Wally debates. I don't care what the boards were like circa 2000. I do like Barry, but feel that DC dropped the ball when they reintroduced him. Barry was brought back with little depth. Sorry, "OMG, my mom's dead!" doesn't count. They threw away some interesting story ideas with the reboot and replaced it with flat characterization. That has nothing to do with who's a better Flash. Nothing at all.

My more immediate concern is this: racial stereotyping vis a vis new 52 Wally. I haven't read Grayson, but I suspect Helena Bertinelli is not being portrayed as a stereotype (say, a mammy or a ghetto hood rat). Racebending is fine if handled properly. Diversity is great if handled properly.

And guess what? There are teens and tweens (of all races) who are good kids, even if they make mistakes. IIRC, Blue Beetle's supporting cast and Billy Batson are also portrayed as being pretty bratty. I know Booth asks people to be patient. He says Barry and Wally are in the process of becoming friends. But honestly, the sooner they get away from unfortunate implications (TM TV Tropes), the better.

What I'm saying is this: I WANT to like this book. I WANT to like the characters again. I'd love Barry and Wally as allies, even if they come about it differently than before. But I'd also like them to be cool and believable. And right now? Right now, it seems that everyone in this book has lost about 50 IQ points.

**Waterfall** · 07-25-2014, 07:52 AM

This book wasn't perfect but it had gorgeous art and it didn't take any risks during previous run. I want to enjoy it like the next person but as others said, it's impossible with this direction.

Mind you that I'm a HUGE Iris West fan before anything else. And the writing on her character is heartbreaking, especially her relationship with Wally is a huge let down. She's so so manipulative and irksome in this book. I want Wally's best friend back. I want "Hey crewcut, wanna date?" Iris, not this pathetic woman.

But hey, we just want Wally to be Flash again and hate Barry. Newsflash: Most people accepted Wally wouldn't be Flash a while ago. We want characters treated with respect and yes, this also includes Barry Allen.

**FlashEarthOne** · 07-25-2014, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by PennyDreadful

My more immediate concern is this: racial stereotyping vis a vis new 52 Wally. I haven't read Grayson, but I suspect Helena Bertinelli is not being portrayed as a stereotype (say, a mammy or a ghetto hood rat). Racebending is fine if handled properly. Diversity is great if handled properly.

I wasn't against Wally's racial change. Now that we're a few issues in it is clear the Barry/Wally storyline is the worst part of the book. If I were in their shoes I would have made an effort to actually make Wally look bi-racial. They clearly didn't have a say with the age or the introduction of Wally but they should've made Wally a kid who was interested in the police force but not necessarily in Barry's job. I would've skipped the whole troubled kid route especially because of the race change. Wally's different personality from Barry's could have been fleshed out by the differences in how they approached things. Barry being more methodical when not in costume and Wally being more of a hot head in general.

**Pharozonk** · 07-25-2014, 09:16 AM

I don't see what's wrong with Wally fans voicing their opinions. Most of us are also Barry Allen fans too, and in my case, I like Barry more. We just want Wally's history respected instead of throwing him under the bus to push a hollow diversification agenda.

**FlashEarthOne** · 07-25-2014, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Pharozonk

I don't see what's wrong with Wally fans voicing their opinions. Most of us are also Barry Allen fans too, and in my case, I like Barry more. We just want Wally's history respected instead of throwing him under the bus to push a hollow diversification agenda.

I'm in the same boat as well. When I see their dialogue for Wally (even Iris)... I just get the image of a 40+ year old man trying to be cool. Acting like they know how kids think and speak. It is an exageration but I kind of get the image of the dad from Modern Family. Haha... that being said I still am enjoying the parts of the book that don't include Wally.

**Sirzechs** · 07-25-2014, 09:32 AM

Have to agree with the people about Iris and Wally, their writing are absolutely terrible,
Wally's characterizations are borderlining on the worst sterotypes
Iris isn't even trying all she tries to do is guilt and manipulate Barry into doing stuff with Wally, bleh the previous team wrote Iris better.

**BohemiaDrinker** · 07-25-2014, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Mia

And by the way, telling people you'll be adding them to your 'ignore list' is against CBR rules.

In all fairness, that was my suggestion. No hard feelings or need to pick a fight from my side.

**Melwicker** · 07-25-2014, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Mia

What does one have to do with the other? I like Barry Allen as the Flash too. But that does not negate the fact that Wally (as well as other characters) have been poorly written. People have a right to make comments regarding what they read in a comic book. Many of the complaints regarding Wally have less to do with how he has been portrayed in the past. As opposed to the just plain and awful hamfisted characterisation and poor storytelling. You don't have to agree with it. But thus far you haven't provided any evidence as to why the issue is good or why (if that is the case) you think the portrayal is adequate.

And by the way, telling people you'll be adding them to your 'ignore list' is against CBR rules.

Oh, Oops. Sorry about that. I didn't know that telling people about adding them to my ignore list was against the rules. I am sorry about violating the rules. I know that ignorance of the rules is no excuse. I am very sorry.

**Buried Alien** · 07-25-2014, 10:58 AM