The Miseducation of Ororo Munroe

[rutog98]

This post reeks of "you're not true fans if you don't believe the same things I do". There is more than one way to be a fan and people can like the same character for different reasons, kindly get over yourself.

Nope, my post was a rebuttal to Havok's post. I'm not the one who has to get over anything. Furthermore, while everyone is free to choose whether or not they believe a character should or should not be as powerful as they are, they do not have the authority to erase the non-PIS feats that put said character at power levels above where their own personal preference is for them. We have seen glimpses of Storm's high end power levels. They are canonical facts. While fans and fandoms are free to have opinions of those facts, they do not have the authority to alter them to their own personal liking.

[butterflykyss]

Storm should be written using her powers creatively on a regular basis and given at least 3 "goddess" feats a year. Also, to the erroneous claim about Storm only pulling a feat once, that is not the issue. The issue is she has a lot of very high level feats scattered throughout her canon that demonstrate the enormous power levels she wields. Storm fans are not making claims about her extreme power levels based on a mere single feat, but from taking into consideration all of her high end feats which are plenty. Some Storm fans try to appease other fan bases by trying place limits on her powers that canon has clearly shown her to exceed whereas other Storm fans are more faithful to the canon and apply the PIS rule to instances where she is blatantly weakened. Besides, there is nothing one can say when her creator stated in plain English that he designed her to be the most powerful and most beautiful female character in all of comics. Heck, from the start, she was given power levels on a par with the Phoenix Force when it impersonated Jean Grey, and has the feats to back it up. Sometimes, Storm would be more powerful than Phoenix Force Jean Grey for a given story, while other times PFJG was written up for whatever the writer wanted to do with that story arc. It was also stated on-panel point blank that Storm wields power at a near-infinite level.

While some fans have a problem with all of this where Storm is concernced, others of us are unapologetic Storm fans, and we will give those high end feats the full credit they deserve.

That said, again, I don't think Storm should be written at full power in every story (no high end character is going to be written like that, especially not when they are in a team setting), but again, she should be consistently portrayed as the most powerful member of the team, and her powers should be used creatively at all times. Finally, a few times a year, she should be given feats to show everyone how she is the ultimate powerhouse of the X.

Rutog thank you, thank you and thank you. You said something I have felt but wasnt quite sure how to articulate this. I think the storm fans want to be considered a part of the community and taken seriously among other fanbases. I dont necessarily see anything wrong with that; however, I will not personally go out of my way to ignore explanations written since early on in her creation as a means to be accepted by the overall community. Why for what? What I have learned, as evident from this thread, people will think whatever they want despite what you say or do. People have posted that I want her to be omnipotent and the most powerful character ever just to name a few things because I want her to be written according to how Claremont described her powerwise. Not one time was any of that ever stated and sorry not sorry I dont need or want validation from a community of people who make invalid assertions like this.

That said, I agree Storm should be considered as one of the most powerful characters in MU like Thor, Hulk Scarlet Witch, etc are. I think if writers had a better understanding of her power and could truly write stories based upon that I think we would get those representations of her being one of the most powerful characters.

[Havok83]

Nope, my post was a rebuttal to Havok's post. I'm not the one who has to get over anything. Furthermore, while everyone is free to choose whether or not they believe a character should or should not be as powerful as they are, they do not have the authority to erase the non-PIS feats that put said character at power levels above where their own personal preference is for them. We have seen glimpses of Storm's high end power levels. They are canonical facts. While fans and fandoms are free to have opinions of those facts, they do not have the authority to alter them to their own personal liking.

there was nothing to offer a rebuttal from me bc I actually didnt say anything, especially not that would require those specific responses to

[Crimz]

Nope, my post was a rebuttal to Havok's post. I'm not the one who has to get over anything. Furthermore, while everyone is free to choose whether or not they believe a character should or should not be as powerful as they are, they do not have the authority to erase the non-PIS feats that put said character at power levels above where their own personal preference is for them. We have seen glimpses of Storm's high end power levels. They are canonical facts. While fans and fandoms are free to have opinions of those facts, they do not have the authority to alter them to their own personal liking.

What you said comes across as there being "true fans" that only think a certain way. Which is messed up.

[rutog98]

Rutog thank you, thank you and thank you. You said something I have felt but wasnt quite sure how to articulate this. I think the storm fans want to be considered a part of the community and taken seriously among other fanbases. I dont necessarily see anything wrong with that; however, I will not personally go out of my way to ignore explanations written since early on in her creation as a means to be accepted by the overall community. Why for what? What I have learned, as evident from this thread, people will think whatever they want despite what you say or do. People have posted that I want her to be omnipotent and the most powerful character ever just to name a few things because I want her to be written according to how Claremont described her powerwise. Not one time was any of that ever stated and sorry not sorry I dont need or want validation from a community of people who make invalid assertions like this.

That said, I agree Storm should be considered as one of the most powerful characters in MU like Thor, Hulk Scarlet Witch, etc are. I think if writers had a better understanding of her power and could truly write stories based upon that I think we would get those representations of her being one of the most powerful characters.

No problem!

there was nothing to offer a rebuttal from me bc I actually didnt say anything

I was still rebutting this:

Im not going to call anyone out but there's a certain poster on this forum that does act like that who's vocal and bad enough that he gives Storm fans a bad name

[rutog98]

What you said comes across as there being "true fans" that only think a certain way. Which is messed up.

If that is what you got from my post, then you are misconstruing it. Nowhere in my position did I make this claim. However, I perceived an attack on Storm fans who acknowledge Storm's many high end feats (which are canon), so I responded accordingly. Anyway, I don't want to continue to dwell on it. I've said my piece.

[butterflykyss]

What you said comes across as there being "true fans" that only think a certain way. Which is messed up.

not to derail the thread but just objectively speaking I dont think his post in any way meant to say who are real fans or not. there have been some who have come in her actually called fans who think she control energy (which is canonically supported) as rabid and not normal fans. those posters who did that are actually doing what you have accused rut of doing. what rut said is no where or anywhere near inflammatory as that. he just pointed out the differences in how some fans view her high end feats which isnt a statement about which fan is better or not. at least for me it wasnt.

but how about we stop focusing on posters and fandoms and actually keep the discussion on how her powers work. this is for everyone me included (^_^)

[rutog98]

Rutog thank you, thank you and thank you. You said something I have felt but wasnt quite sure how to articulate this. I think the storm fans want to be considered a part of the community and taken seriously among other fanbases. I dont necessarily see anything wrong with that; however, I will not personally go out of my way to ignore explanations written since early on in her creation as a means to be accepted by the overall community. Why for what? What I have learned, as evident from this thread, people will think whatever they want despite what you say or do. People have posted that I want her to be omnipotent and the most powerful character ever just to name a few things because I want her to be written according to how Claremont described her powerwise. Not one time was any of that ever stated and sorry not sorry I dont need or want validation from a community of people who make invalid assertions like this.

That said, I agree Storm should be considered as one of the most powerful characters in MU like Thor, Hulk Scarlet Witch, etc are. I think if writers had a better understanding of her power and could truly write stories based upon that I think we would get those representations of her being one of the most powerful characters.

I also wanted to add that many of the fanbases that seek to devalue Storm try to give their favorite characters power levels and feats never given to them in canon. It's a really bad double-standard. So, no, we Storm fans have to be sure of our facts, sure of ourselves, and stand tall for what canon has clearly shown in regards to what she can do.

[rutog98]

not to derail the thread but just objectively speaking I dont think his post in any way meant to say who are real fans or not. there have been some who have come in her actually called fans who think she control energy (which is canonically supported) as rabid and not normal fans. those posters who did that are actually doing what you have accused rut of doing. what rut said is no where or anywhere near inflammatory as that. he just pointed out the differences in how some fans view her high end feats which isnt a statement about which fan is better or not. at least for me it wasnt.

but how about we stop focusing on posters and fandoms and actually keep the discussion on how her powers work. this is for everyone me included (^_^)

Great advice!

[Havok83]

I was still rebutting this:

I never claimed it was about you and I didnt say or expound about anything in regards to Storm's feats and portrayal

[rutog98]

I never claimed it was about you and I didnt say or expound about anything in regards to Storm's feats and portrayal

If I took your post out of context, then I apologize. Anyway, let's all move on.

[Havok83]

If I took your post out of context, then I apologize. Anyway, let's all move on.

No worries

[butterflykyss]

No worries

very pretty and the eyes are striking. 'ro showing you how true manipulation of energy is supposed to be

[Carabas]

Heck, from the start, she was given power levels on a par with the Phoenix Force when it impersonated Jean Grey, and has the feats to back it up. Sometimes, Storm would be more powerful than Phoenix Force Jean Grey for a given story, while other times PFJG was written stronger than Ororo for whatever the writer wanted to do with that story arc. It was also stated on-panel point blank that Storm wields power at a near-infinite level.

Superhero powerlevels are always dependant on how high or low the current plot needs them to be.

from the start, she was given power levels on a par with the Phoenix Force when it impersonated Jean Grey

This bit though... at the time the original Phoenix/Dark Phoenix Sagas were written, Claremont wasn't taking into account future retcons. There was no such thing as a Phoenix Force at the time, it was created later as an excuse to bring back Jean Grey. There was just Jean Grey and her own, innate, out-of-control powers.

And Storm having powerlevels on par with that? I'd like to see her try FTL space flight and sun-eating.

[Sundowhn]

I love that you are quoting the creators. How about we quote Dave Cockrum himself regarding his intentions behind creating ororo:

“What I had in mind was to make her the most powerful woman in comics, and the most beautiful woman in comics, and I think I’ve succeeded,” Dave Cockrum told the audience at RiverCon ‘75. “If I can find someone who looks like her, the two tickets to Tierra del Fuego are right here in my pocket.”

http://seanhowe.tumblr.com/post/1270...e-her-the-most

How's that for a rabid fan? (^_^)

And in 1975, Storm was already just that -- a beautiful, powerful mutant who had the ability to manipulate the weather. Where's the dilemma now in wanting her to be more than that?

And why are you attacking fans calling them rabid in the first place is it really that serious that you must insult people who think differently from you?

If you read the post in its entirety, you'd see I was replying to this:

....
But the thing is, no Storm fan would want Storm to stay at that level. For decades, fans have been saying Storm is a goddess and many dismissed that claim as the preachings of rabid fan boys and low and behold Coates comes along and makes it official.

At the end of the day it would be nice to have confirmation of the things we've been saying that is supported by canon!
....

This post was where the phrase came from. So yeah, not insulting you or attacking you, rather countering his point.

Regarding feats, and keeping them canon -- sure, why not? Nightcrawler can teleport blind cross country over hundreds of miles and carry multiple passengers. He can take out a Sentinel by 'porting off a piece of it. Kitty never has to think through another fight setting, because she can just phase the building from under the bad guys.