The Miseducation of Ororo Munroe

[Crimz]

Absolutely agree. I love the character, but only when she's humanized. I frankly think she needs far more limitations than she currently has, to be more interesting. Her being on a team shouldn't be a game ender, unless she's incapacitated. That's a lame writer's ploy.

I think they should take what makes sense with her power set and base more limitations around that. If you've ever played an RPG, something in those terms. If she's outside, in earth's atmosphere, she get + whatever to her attacks. If she's inside, in a normal structure no bonuses, just average. If she's underground, significant negative to attack power. If she's out of earth's atmosphere, even more negatives. She should have been utterly powerless in Hell, for example, though people complained about that.

The be-all, end-all goddess is something I find tedious to read about, and useless to be placed in a team environment.. That goes for any character on a team. Rachel was OTT in Excalibur, but that was mitigated by her own psychological hang-ups, and the weird interference of Widget, so it kept the rest of the team having a purpose. Jean, in perfect control of the PF would be equally as boring. Rogue in control of her powers I found to be dull. If Nightcrawler could teleport anywhere without coordinates, visual or a memory of the place, that would be boring, as well.

I really don't get the mentality of wanting Storm to be all powerful, at all. The more powerful she's written, the less writers want to use her, then her fan base complains because she isn't used.

I completely agree. Limits mean challenges and that provides characters opportunities to grow. With limits you get to see characters get creative with their powers to compensate and that's infinitely more intersting than being all-powerful. There is a reason that there are no books starring the TOAA or Celestials and if they tried to they'd flop.

[butterflykyss]

Personally, I like Storm being a weather manipulator or if you must, someone who can manipulate + generate the planetary energies that are responsible for weather. It's such a cool and creative power and you can do so much with it. I'm not sure why there's a segment of Storm fans who want her to be this all singing all dancing all powerful supergod who can do anything; that's so boring and she's a great character with a great powerset as-is.

I wish writers were more creative with her powers because a lot of the time she's just someone who flies and shoots bolts of lightning but the shortcomings of the average writer don't necessitate her getting a ridiculous power boost to godhood. The way some of her fans talk you'd think she was Odin + The Phoenix + Jesus Christ + Dr. Strange or something. Characters need limitations.

No one has ever said any of the exaggerations that you have just mentioned about O'roro. Fans want her full potential to be explored as well as the things Claremont hinted at years ago.



Also I am not sure if you are referring to Ta-Nehisi Coates as an average writer, as he was the one who canonized her being a goddess, but I wouldn't call a writer who has won awards including the National Book Award for Nonfiction, NAACP Image Award for Outstanding Literature, National Magazine Award in Essays and Criticism and many others as just an "average" writer.

This still goes along with what I and others have said. The only time she is able to manipulate “cosimic weather” is when she was in that enviroment. Her weather powers are linked to whatever enviroment she is in at a given time. This, in my opinion, does not make her a true energy manipulater but instead being a casualty to what she is already doing or trying to accomplish.

The galatic core feat was not manipulation of "cosmic weather" and the argument writers has made is that she can't utilize her powers in space because there is no weather.



The reason she is able to manipulate solar winds, for example, is not because it is cosmic weather because it is not weather at all. She can do this because she can perceive this energy (radiation) and control it. If writers truly believed she controlled "cosmic weather" as you put it the aforementioned scan would have never been shown as such. They believe she needs an atmosphere/biosphere for her powers to operate and if that is gone she is powerless which is so far from the truth.

The problem is, her name is Storm and she has already shown vague cosmic levels of energy powers.

The galactic core feat puts her on a level few mutants in the universe could match.

Just because her name is Storm, doesn't mean her powers are limited to just weather manipulation. If she can rearrange the molecules of her clothing with a thought and control solar flares...then weather manipulation is just the tip of the iceberg when comes to her powers.

Step outside the box and think about what's she done over the years.

I'm not saying this as a Storm fan but as someone who seen Storm pull off some crazy shit...and think how is that weather related.

Absolutely correct.

The bolded and similar 'cosmic' feats, while crazy cool and awesome, were "done in ones" and performed under extreme circumstances (and certainly not explained to any detailed degree of my satisfaction). They are not part of her regular repertoire.

While it speaks to her potential if she truly pushes herself beyond her limitations, because it is a singular occurrence, it certainly should not define how her powers intrinsically operate. Storm is no more "cosmic level" than let's say...Jean Grey without the Phoenix.

How often is O'roro in space, let alone near the galatic core to perform feats like she did then? The last time she was in space she was able to manipulate solar radiation on a global scale for over 4 hours when she grieved Wolverine's death. There are instances over her 40 years of existence as being able to manipulate energy not associated with weather, and specifically cosmic feats so they were not "done in ones" as you describe.

Also, you are not correct about Storm not being anymore cosmic than Jean Grey without the Phoenix. Claremont actually made Jean as the phoenix to put her on the power level of O'roro at that time (see highlighted below):

Jean Storm.jpg

Adding link to image that is a bit more clear:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads...1086-j7t54.jpg

There has always been a misconception as to what her powers are, what she can do, and how powerful she is. As the article above shows Jean with the power of the Phoenix was at the level of O'roro powerwise. The thing with O'roro is that she always holds back never taking herself to the next level which is what Roguestorm was about. All in all, this is the main reason I believe her powers and how they function are all over the place is due to people not truly understand what Claremont wrote and assume because her name is "storm" she is supposed to only control the weather. That is incorrect and doesn't align with her power description in canon.

I completely agree. Limits mean challenges and that provides characters opportunities to grow. With limits you get to see characters get creative with their powers to compensate and that's infinitely more intersting than being all-powerful. There is a reason that there are no books starring the TOAA or Celestials and if they tried to they'd flop.

Thor, Monica, Hulk, Dr. Strange, and Scarlet Witch are not flops yet they are incredibly powerful. I am not sure why fans who want O'roro to reach her full potential is indicative of them not wanting her to have limits. She would and still be able to be beaten just like Iceman who gets to see his potential explored all the time.

[SonOfPsylocke]

why are you inserting an apostrophe into her name?

[butterflykyss]

why are you inserting an apostrophe into her name?

thanks for the catch beloved. I'm used to writing O'choro and T'choro/T'challa i was getting it confused.

[Crimz]

Thor, Monica, Hulk, Dr. Strange, and Scarlet Witch are not flops yet they are incredibly powerful. I am not sure why fans who want O'roro to reach her full potential is indicative of them not wanting her to have limits. She would and still be able to be beaten just like Iceman who gets to see his potential explored all the time.

Scarlet Witch in HoM was a plot device. She has never displayed that amount of power again and for good reason.
Dr Strange is constantly depowered or reduced in power.
Thor gets his power reduced often too
Monica is rarely used and is currently in limbo
Hulk's entire thing is being "the strongest there is" and his power is treated as a curse.
Iceman does not get his potential explored all the time and his omega status doesn't benefit him. It took his sexuality being revealed for him to get a solo, not being an omega.

You seeing the pattern? Powerful characters are depowered or weakened all the time just for writers to be able to tell stories with them.

And the potential most fans want for Storm is above those characters you mentioned. It would make her boring and unusable on most teams, it would result in her being used much less than she is now.

[butterflykyss]

Scarlet Witch in HoM was a plot device. She has never displayed that amount of power again and for good reason.
Dr Strange is constantly depowered or reduced in power.
Thor gets his power reduced often too
Monica is rarely used and is currently in limbo
Hulk's entire thing is being "the strongest there is" and his power is treated as a curse.
Iceman does not get his potential explored all the time and his omega status doesn't benefit him. It took his sexuality being revealed for him to get a solo, not being an omega.

You seeing the pattern? Powerful characters are depowered or weakened all the time just for writers to be able to tell stories with them.

And the potential most fans want for Storm is above those characters you mentioned. It would make her boring and unusable on most teams, it would result in her being used much less than she is now.

No matter how many times the characters are nerfed they are understood as being powerhouses and there are numerous showings of how powerful they are in canon to support this. Fans of Ororo want her finally shown as she was always described to be. This is why some of her fans are excited about her being an actual goddess. Whether it's above them or not isn't the issue. If for years a character was said to be capable of doing something but it was rarely if ever shown, I don't think it would be a surprise that some fans would want the writers to put their money where their mouth is. Jean was given Phoenix to put her on Ororo's power level, yet there are only a few moments where we have seen her operate anywhere near that potential power level. No one is saying it has to be as such all the time, and frankly if a writer was creative enough they could show her using the full range of her powers as measurable to the threat she was fighting. She, as you know, operates on controlling her power and not going over the top by her self-imposed limits. There are ways around this where it doesn't get boring but it still is explored when necessary.

[Crimz]

No matter how many times the characters are nerfed they are understood as being powerhouses and there are numerous showings of how powerful they are in canon to support this. Fans of Ororo want her finally shown as she was always described to be. This is why some of her fans are excited about her being an actual goddess. Whether it's above them or not isn't the issue. If for years a character was said to be capable of doing something but it was rarely if ever shown, I don't think it would be a surprise that some fans would want the writers to put their money where their mouth is. Jean was given Phoenix to put her on Ororo's power level, yet there are only a few moments where we have seen her operate anywhere near that potential power level. No one is saying it has to be as such all the time, and frankly if a writer was creative enough they could show her using the full range of her powers as measurable to the threat she was fighting. She, as you know, operates on controlling her power and not going over the top by her self-imposed limits. There are ways around this where it doesn't get boring but it still is explored when necessary.

Storm is already powerful, having control over all energy is just excessive. Jean is the worst example, the power of the phoenix is the reason why she's been dead for so long. She was too powerful and the stories that could be told with her were limited as a result. That's why she's back without the phoenix.
Self-imposed limits aren't limits tbh. Every hero has self imposed limits otherwise they'd be killing all their enemies or being excessively violent in how they handle things. Making her too powerful will make it harder to write the character effectively and she would come across as boring. We can say you only have to XYZ to make a powerful character interesting and usable but history has shown that's not the case.

[ShepardOakenshieldPrime]

I'm still confused how people think Storm being an energy manipulator is overpowering her. Can anyone explain this? To me it makes her more interesting, otherwise she'd be another Thor who can only do basic weather stuff. But seeing her make emps, manipulate magnetic fields, plasma, electricity, air pressure, temperature etc is what makes her powers interesting. Creating a hydrogen explosion in space? That's much more interesting than the 1000th lightning strike of her career, exactly how is the explanation of the reach of her power being down to the specific energies equate to bring "all powerful"?

[butterflykyss]

Storm is already powerful, having control over all energy is just excessive. Jean is the worst example, the power of the phoenix is the reason why she's been dead for so long. She was too powerful and the stories that could be told with her were limited as a result. That's why she's back without the phoenix.
Self-imposed limits aren't limits tbh. Every hero has self imposed limits otherwise they'd be killing all their enemies or being excessively violent in how they handle things. Making her too powerful will make it harder to write the character effectively and she would come across as boring. We can say you only have to XYZ to make a powerful character interesting and usable but history has shown that's not the case.

it's not excessive its how Claremont explained her powers worked. also, no one said she isnt powerdul but what does any of this have to with how her powers have been described as working in canon?

in regards to jean and why she was dead ok but the current writer stated that the Phoenix was holding her back implying she is more powerful without it. but that is neither here or there. self imposed limits are limits frankly. it is what kept her to ascending to her full potential in roguestorm:








she has been the one that holds back because she understands the ramifications of unleashing.

and for her to be as powerful as you say it certainly hasnt been the case with her.

[butterflykyss]

I'm still confused how people think Storm being an energy manipulator is overpowering her. Can anyone explain this? To me it makes her more interesting, otherwise she'd be another Thor who can only do basic weather stuff. But seeing her make emps, manipulate magnetic fields, plasma, electricity, air pressure, temperature etc is what makes her powers interesting. Creating a hydrogen explosion in space? That's much more interesting than the 1000th lightning strike of her career, exactly how is the explanation of the reach of her power being down to the specific energies equate to bring "all powerful"?

great question I'm really confused. especially when this is how her weather warping powers has been explained.

[Crimz]

I'm still confused how people think Storm being an energy manipulator is overpowering her. Can anyone explain this? To me it makes her more interesting, otherwise she'd be another Thor who can only do basic weather stuff. But seeing her make emps, manipulate magnetic fields, plasma, electricity, air pressure, temperature etc is what makes her powers interesting. Creating a hydrogen explosion in space? That's much more interesting than the 1000th lightning strike of her career, exactly how is the explanation of the reach of her power being down to the specific energies equate to bring "all powerful"?

For me personally:

Her controlling energy associated with weather (electromagnetic, plasma etc.) - I'm fine with that
Her being able to control all forms of energy in existence - Makes her overpowered and boring.

[butterflykyss]

For me personally:

Her controlling energy associated with weather (electromagnetic, plasma etc.) - I'm fine with that
Her being able to control all forms of energy in existence - Makes her overpowered and boring.

well Claremont never said it was just energy associated with weather. it was never limited to just weather. when rogue absorbed ororo power and was able to see as ororo does she notes she sees the sun, air, and water as energy that resonate within her being.



the sun is a big ball of energy and not weather, nor is water. I understand what may be boring to you but ororo power has always been about her ability to perceive energy and control those energies. she typically uses this ability to control weather but it never has been just weather.

[Paleo_Rage]

This back and forth in this thread is interesting. But one thing folks arent bringing up is that storm abilities like other superheroes as expanded as our scientific understanding as gotten better.

Marvel Telepaths do a lot but I dont see folks on here wanting to neuter them...

Iceman went from being covered in snow to being covered in hard ice to becoming organic ice to be able to be move between all states of water(vapor, water, ice). And while I appreciate Scott Lobdell making Bobby more of a threat and thinking about his powers, it was interesting that he tried to devalue Storm's abilities yet boosted Icemans.

Most superheroes have progressed a lot since they have been created.... Mr.Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Iceman, Storm,Jean Grey, are all characters who powers have progressed with the times.

Storm as an energy manipulator who powers are centered around weather but not limited to weather makes sense. Why would a mutation be so specific that limits them. As we know energy is connected and is not destroyed but changes form and when you add human will to that equation, it makes sense that high level energy manipulators like Storm, Magneto, Polaris, Dazzler can do a variety of things.. Elementals seem to be the most versatile of mutants when it comes to powers and abilities. I mean rictor went from vibratory waves to being able to having a psionic bond with the earth. It makes sense to me but..I guess everyone doesnt think about the interconnected nature of energy, the environment or how things can be applied in different ways depending on the environment.

I mean both Polaris and Firestar were able to cut loose in space and that makes sense for their abilities so why would storm be any different.

Also blasters are different than energy manipulators..

And I think as far as CC, he likes to think about how mutant powers have multiple applications. He did a lot of things with Storms abilties but also Magneto and even attempted to make Archangel cool during his brief run on Excalibur( the Genosha era).

[butterflykyss]

This back and forth in this thread is interesting. But one thing folks arent bringing up is that storm abilities like other superheroes as expanded as our scientific understanding as gotten better.

Marvel Telepaths do a lot but I dont see folks on here wanting to neuter them...

Iceman went from being covered in snow to being covered in hard ice to becoming organic ice to be able to be move between all states of water(vapor, water, ice). And while I appreciate Scott Lobdell making Bobby more of a threat and thinking about his powers, it was interesting that he tried to devalue Storm's abilities yet boosted Icemans.

Most superheroes have progressed a lot since they have been created.... Mr.Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Iceman, Storm,Jean Grey, are all characters who powers have progressed with the times.

Storm as an energy manipulator who powers are centered around weather but not limited to weather makes sense. Why would a mutation be so specific that limits them. As we know energy is connected and is not destroyed but changes form and when you add human will to that equation, it makes sense that high level energy manipulators like Storm, Magneto, Polaris, Dazzler can do a variety of things.. Elementals seem to be the most versatile of mutants when it comes to powers and abilities. I mean rictor went from vibratory waves to being able to having a psionic bond with the earth. It makes sense to me but..I guess everyone doesnt think about the interconnected nature of energy, the environment or how things can be applied in different ways depending on the environment.

I mean both Polaris and Firestar were able to cut loose in space and that makes sense for their abilities so why would storm be any different.

Also blasters are different than energy manipulators..

And I think as far as CC, he likes to think about how mutant powers have multiple applications. He did a lot of things with Storms abilties but also Magneto and even attempted to make Archangel cool during his brief run on Excalibur( the Genosha era).

excellent points my friend!!!

[Havok83]

Storm is already powerful, having control over all energy is just excessive. Jean is the worst example, the power of the phoenix is the reason why she's been dead for so long. She was too powerful and the stories that could be told with her were limited as a result. That's why she's back without the phoenix.
Self-imposed limits aren't limits tbh. Every hero has self imposed limits otherwise they'd be killing all their enemies or being excessively violent in how they handle things. Making her too powerful will make it harder to write the character effectively and she would come across as boring. We can say you only have to XYZ to make a powerful character interesting and usable but history has shown that's not the case.

IDA. Jean was not too powerful as Phoenix. She was dead bc TIIC preferred her that way. To be honest, they've done far more ridiculously overpowered stuff with Storm, than they did with Phoenix powered Jean as part of the X-men. Jean had far greater potential but she wasnt doing these all powerful feats on a regular basis. They were few and far between