A response to Tom King

[DieHard200904]

....Five whole seconds of an ambiguous ending means jack squat and you know it.

You could have just used King's 2017 annual as a better example of just how inevitable the Bat-Marriage will be down the line.

It's pretty well observed that people threw temper tantrums over that issue. So they are the ones who need that talking to.

I am just the choir and I know all about how comic books and their story arcs work, having observed them for 20 years.

[DieHard200904]

Surprised?

This isn't OMD, it's a plot twist and hardly the conclusion, AFAIK. People have issues if they are going to treat one chickening out of marriage as the end of it and start throwing fits about it.

[Mia]

Spider-man getting married means that the thing is over and that there is nowhere to go?

That.Is.Insane.

No. Spider-man lost his marriage because someone in the company wanted books resembling what they enjoyed as opposed to something the audience could get behind. Never-mind if you like it or not, the decision wasn't made to escape creative bankruptcy, it was made for that. Do not insinuate that marriage is some sort of garden of Eden that comes with no problems. That's short sighted, grossly inaccurate, and on some level offensive. It's a big deal, but not one that results in complete and total happiness day in and day out. Especially considering the nature of superhero comics and how that might break the industry somehow if a character gets married. That is laughably stupid.

We got Mephisto because Joe Quesada is a complete hack who wrote meandering trash for no other reason than to say the stories he grew up with are the things that the character must be for the foreseeable future. I know that sounds like a ton of complaints on the internet attached to "video-essays" which have characters with googly eyes on the thumbnail, but that is what happened. One More Day sucks for good reason, there is good reason why it's the epitome of dumb **** not worth the paper its printed on in modern comics.

Well said. Further Batman and Spider-man are two different characters. Bruce Wayne is a loner and a playboy. He's not domesticated and I don't see him settling down. At least not with someone like Selina Kyle. I don't see the same sympatico relationship between him and Catwoman. As I do with Peter & MJ. Bruce and Selina/Batman and Catwoman came across more as **** buddies more than a romantic or spiritual partnership. I love Selina/Catwoman to bits. But she just comes across as a rich man's mistress. I am not saying she's a woman ill repute. But to coin a turn of phrase she's desert not dinner. Men date Selina when they need a break from their life or a good time. Then they go back to real life.

Whereas when I started reading SM he was already married to MJ. And that marriage came across as a partnership, they were a couple and best friends. She just wan't his 'wife'. That's one of the main reasons that Spiderman's marriage appeals or works for so many of us fans.

[Inversed]

Batman and Catwoman not getting married I don't so much have a problem with, its some of the execution around it that's the issue. I think it was way too rushed, I feel if we had at least 1 arc where Selina starts doubting herself before #50, it would've felt more natural instead of 1 issue of self-doubt and then running off.

Also, at this moment, I really hate that not only Bane manipulated the breakup, but apparently manipulated everything that happened in the book, which makes absolutely no sense and feels cheap to me. Not to mention it takes away the impact of Selina's decision when you immediately say someone else manipulated her into doing it, it doesn't become a logical character progression that can proceed in any direction, now its a pause button until they decide to resolve this plot thread.

[WebLurker]

Saying that having roommates is enough to make someone a loser is saying that people with the same everyday life problems as most people are losers.

I never said anything about the roommates. I personally think that it's neither here nor there in the question of whether Peter is supposed to be a "loser" or not.

I'm picturing Peter opening up all the cages at the zoo.

Someone, fan art, please!

This isn't OMD, it's a plot twist and hardly the conclusion, AFAIK. People have issues if they are going to treat one chickening out of marriage as the end of it and start throwing fits about it.

Okay, but my point is that fans throwing fits, being toxically entitled, bullying, lashing out, etc., is the new normal.

[Miles To Go]

Bruce and Selina/Batman and Catwoman came across more as **** buddies more than a romantic or spiritual partnership.

You need to read more with them then. Not just King's stuff. They have a unique bond and a definite connection.

[DieHard200904]

I never said anything about the roommates. I personally think that it's neither here nor there in the question of whether Peter is supposed to be a "loser" or not.





Someone, fan art, please!




Okay, but my point is that fans throwing fits, being toxically entitled, bullying, lashing out, etc., is the new normal.

Well that sounds pretty !^$*#^ that some people have to get themselves in such a twist over something that isn't real. Even as someone who quit comics three times. That's it, I stopped because it didn't suit my interest. Maybe because I just was happy to get something when I did growing up or whatever, it's just rediculous. I say that even when it's a fringe.

[Alan2099]

Well that sounds pretty !^$*#^ that some people have to get themselves in such a twist over something that isn't real. Even as someone who quit comics three times. That's it, I stopped because it didn't suit my interest. Maybe because I just was happy to get something when I did growing up or whatever, it's just rediculous. I say that even when it's a fringe.

We live in a world now where people look for reasons to be outraged.

It's no longer okay to just not like something. You have to hate it, and if somebody else hates it, you have to hate it more than they do. Then you have to try to find a way to make it stop. Anything that you do not personally like does not deserve to exist.

[WebLurker]

Well that sounds pretty !^$*#^ that some people have to get themselves in such a twist over something that isn't real. Even as someone who quit comics three times. That's it, I stopped because it didn't suit my interest. Maybe because I just was happy to get something when I did growing up or whatever, it's just rediculous. I say that even when it's a fringe.

We live in a world now where people look for reasons to be outraged.

It's no longer okay to just not like something. You have to hate it, and if somebody else hates it, you have to hate it more than they do. Then you have to try to find a way to make it stop. Anything that you do not personally like does not deserve to exist.

Agree on both counts. As useful as the internet is, I think it can bring out the worst in us if we let it and the increasing tribalism of culture (at least here in the States), isn't doing anyone any favors.

[boots]

Surprised?

about as surprised as i’m sure you are

and on the tangent of “loooosers” most late 20s/early 30s inner city people i knew were sharehousing, hell i was. and we all had reasonable careers. for some, it’s a lifestyle choice

[Daniel22]

We live in a world now where people look for reasons to be outraged.

It's no longer okay to just not like something. You have to hate it, and if somebody else hates it, you have to hate it more than they do. Then you have to try to find a way to make it stop. Anything that you do not personally like does not deserve to exist.

Yes.. And the irony is that now we have more options than ever when it comes to entertainment. If you have a smartphone you have more entertainment options in your hands than you could ever consume in thousands of lifetimes. There are more movies, TV shows and comics at our fingertips than we know what to do with. And STILL people want everything to exist solely for them, and if something isn't to their tastes they would rather it not exist... when they could simply ignore it instead.

I'll also point out, on the roommate front, that not everybody uses finances as a barometer of success. And sometimes circumstances out of someone's control (health issues, losing a job, accidents, etc) strike. It's super judgmental and narrow to put everyone with roommates in the failure category.

[Starrius]

You need to read more with them then. Not just King's stuff. They have a unique bond and a definite connection.

I am wondering how much comics has she read about Bruce and Selina.
The Nu52 stuff wasn't great

[Grim Ghost]

Any writer or creator who thinks that a character is limited due to having a family/marriage/kids, etc is a no talent and lazy hack.

The vast majority of great Spider-Man writers are hacks then. Good to know. Somebody let Roger Stern know.

Also I see we are back to these absurd "somebody doesn't like to read/write Spider-Man married so they hate marriage in real life" dreck. Someone on here said they feel sorry for these people's spouses. Give me a break.

[Prof. Warren]

The vast majority of great Spider-Man writers are hacks then. Good to know. Somebody let Roger Stern know.

Also I see we are back to these absurd "somebody doesn't like to read/write Spider-Man married so they hate marriage in real life" dreck. Someone on here said they feel sorry for these people's spouses. Give me a break.

Yes, it's ridiculous.

You can be married or believe in marriage and still, as a reader or as a creator, recognize that marriage is not always the right fit for a serialized character.

It doesn't make you anti-marriage. And as someone who actually is married and has been for some time, I feel like having comics couples married is never really true to the evolution of a relationship. Peter and MJ could be married ten, twenty, or even fifty years in real time but in Marvel Time, they'll never celebrate their tenth anniversary, they'll never be able to go through any of the long term milestones and the real changes that real life brings. They'll always be that young couple in their late 20s with more time ahead of them than behind.

Having them as a couple, that's fine. Nothing against that at all. I love MJ. But to have them be married...my preference is a no on that.

[Gaastra]

Don't forget the torch got married and grew up into a leader role. But marvel writers wanted the "little kid" torch and the blasted wife was in the way so--she was a skrull! Torch lost his growth and turned back into a little kid again.


To me some great stories came from the spidey mj era and any good writer can tell a good story with them married.





As for the death threats wasn't that a joke from king?

"Update: Newsarama has confirmed that the "bodyguard" in the tweet sent by Batman writer Tom King (below) is in fact David Wray, a known art collector who works for ComicSketchArt LLC as line security for various creators' booth lines at conventions. So it's possible King's tweet was in jest.;"

https://www.newsarama.com/40923-dc-m...-concerns.html