A response to Tom King

[squirecam]

mm, i'm not sold on that comparison. for all intents and purposes, until the recent link between sony and marvel, they're more like their own stand alone realities than alternate versions of a "mainstream" MCU

from what i can see (admittedly, i wasn't around for most of it), the ultimate universe didn't so much fade away, it influenced the MU to the point where anything singular or special about the ultimate u (do people call it the UU?) was now present in both which lead to its demise. it almost seems like 616 gave birth to 1610, with what seemed like a symbiotic relationship that ended in cannibalism of the younger cousin

and on the subject of "real things", i always thought the 616 designation was made to point out that "our" marvel reality was no more important than the rest of the multiverse, in contrast with DC making it clear that theirs was 1 or "prime". it's something that i think has been lost in recent storytelling, where 616 is the special snowflake of universes.

Yeah, 616 is the special snowflake of universes.

Reed turns into a douche in most of the others. Not 616.
Other spider-totems die in a panel or 2. Not 616 Peter.
No earth successfully fights off the incursions. Except 616.

[Miles To Go]

No earth successfully fights off the incursions. Except 616.

Daily strip universe survived the incursions thanks to Karn

[boots]

Yeah, 616 is the special snowflake of universes.

Reed turns into a douche in most of the others. Not 616.
Other spider-totems die in a panel or 2. Not 616 Peter.
No earth successfully fights off the incursions. Except 616.

yeah, like i get why irl...but it’s just less interesting. and it’s an approach that makes 616 plot armour too apparent

i did like how that squadron supreme world had succeeded against at least 1 incursion prior, but their chances of winning against 616 Illuminati was never in doubt once the two met

and i couldn’t see any reason for 616 peter being more special than the other spiders in spiderverse beyond ...he’s ours. which is a bit egocentric. i think either expanding snowflake status to others or somehow proving why 616 is more important would have been a more fascinating approach

[boots]

deeeeeeeleeeeeeeete

[boots]

Daily strip universe survived the incursions thanks to Karn

were they involved in the incursions too? why didn’t the illuminati just team up with karn then? would’ve solved a lot of problems

[boots]

...By uncreative people.

there have been some towering talents that worked under the “illusion of change” mandate. like, practically all of marvel post 70s. let’s not forget that the marriage itself was really just another iteration of that

and despite cartoon stan’s tears, irl stan became a vocal supporter of illusion of change (calling it “the secret to success”)...even though his initial approach was far more disruptive

tends to be what happens with hard earned success. you become more concerned with how to keep it than how to continue blazing a trail

[Green Symbiote]

Ultimates Comics showed that alt-realities can stand on their own two feet...for awhile. A good while, sure, but obviously if someone was a fan of the Ultimate universe, they don't have any new stories to enjoy at the moment. It faded and the main MU keeps rolling on. Still, it was a good run.

And the movie verse is equivalent to the main MU in the comics - it's the primary universe in its realm. Something like the Fox or Sony movies would be the alt realities in relation to movies. And they do...ok. Sometimes quite well. But they're not the "real thing" as it were.

In 2018, the "real thing" has become more and more ambiguous. This isn't 1966, when the only version of Spider-Man was what was coming in the comics. Now you have people for whom the MCU version is the "real thing." Then you have young children for whom the cartoon will be "the real thing." Then you probably have elderly folks or boomers for whom the daily strip is "the real thing".

Is there an actual "real thing," yeah, but in this day and age for the average person who knows and calls themselves a Spider-Man fan it's not relevant. Note that the average person who calls themselves a Spider-Man fan, they are probably not reading "the real thing." So there's that. In this day and age, an alternate reality can survive with stuff like Kickstarter, fan petitions, webcomics, etc.

[Miles To Go]

were they involved in the incursions too? why didn’t the illuminati just team up with karn then? would’ve solved a lot of problems

I know right? Karn has the ability to take universes and store them in pocket realities. Could have just bottled everything until things were sorted.

[Alan2099]

Yeah, 616 is the special snowflake of universes.

Reed turns into a douche in most of the others. Not 616.
Other spider-totems die in a panel or 2. Not 616 Peter.
No earth successfully fights off the incursions. Except 616.

You only think that because most of the stories we see are set in the 616 universe.

I can think of quite a few What if issues that ended with basically "such and such used their new powers/status to improve the world and everybody was happy forever."

[boots]

You only think that because most of the stories we see are set in the 616 universe.

I can think of quite a few What if issues that ended with basically "such and such used their new powers/status to improve the world and everybody was happy forever."

yeah, things may work out more positively in their universe...but they all still got incursioned while 616 chugged along. in the end it was our doom, nobody else’s who saved everything

like how even if three alternate reed richards’ attain the infinity gauntlet, only ours survives and succeeds

or if any peter parkers from those what if worlds were in spider-verse, they all take a backseat to mr 616. on paper, ben reilly from
earth 94 seemed like the better candidate than our petey in many ways (and no, that’s not my clone bias showing), but he ain’t the lead and his plot armour is thin


again, i get it. i know sometimes they’re just literary foils for our guy. i just miss the way it used to be portrayed (or at least my perception of it)

[boots]

I know right? Karn has the ability to take universes and store them in pocket realities. Could have just bottled everything until things were sorted.

guess it’s the same reason ned stark doesn’t decide to stay home in ep 1 of GoT...there’d be no story lol

[Mia]

You need to read more with them then. Not just King's stuff. They have a unique bond and a definite connection.

Sure they do. They're both outsiders who don't fit in (or want to fit in) and like to do their own thing. But that in and of itself does not make them soul mates.

[Zeitgeist]

When 90s animated Spider-Man tells Stan all people grow and evolve, even ones from fiction, Stan concedes to this point and, with a tear in his eye, acknowledges Spider-Man has come a long way from when he was writing him.

This is something people like you tend to wilfully and constantly ignore because it annihilates your argument.

And yet each subsequent animated series has reset Spider-Man time and time again, so that disproves what I say how, exactly? Sorry bud, still not annihilated.

Peter was a husband for 20 years mainstream. He's been a husband for 31 years elsewhere...far longer than he's ever been single.

Peter's years as a father elsewhere, if you count both MC2 and RYV, have also totalled 20 years. On equal par with how long he's been a husband mainline wise.

Cool, and how many of the Spider-Man films, video games and main-continuity books have launched with Peter being a father, middle-aged, or married? Why do you think he's always reset as younger, being in school or at university?

BTW, Tom King co-won an eisner for writing a story where Bruce and Selina were happily married...let that sink in.

And are they still married? Let that sink in.