Who do you blame for the mutant wipeout at the end of House of M?

[Carabas]

Tom Brevoort said that no mutants died because of Wanda. Havok also said that no mutants died because of Wanda.

I remember actual stories showing dead Mutants because of Wanda.

[sunofdarkchild]

On panel deaths/

Jeannie Martin was a mutant from Long Island. After M-Day, she lost the strength in her neck and her vertebrae broke, killing her in the street.

Chamayra was the oldest child in the Ortega family. Chamayra was accidentally shot by her brother but was saved through the powers of Mr. M. She died from internal bleeding months later when the effects of Mr. M's powers were somehow reversed on M-Day when many other mutants lost their mutations.

A mutant owner of the Inferno Night Club in Manhattan, Tony Romeo possessed the ability to light his body on fire. After the events of M-Day, he lost the ability to control his powers and he burned to death in front of his nightclub. The full extent of his abilities likely remains unrevealed.

When Magma was vacationing in South America, she met Antonio, a mutant-pyrokinetic like her. They were together for two weeks until Magma's vacation was over. She tried to convince Antonio to go with her to the Xavier Institute, but he refused, and convinced her to spend an extra week together. Four days later, they both leapt from a helicopter into the La Cumbre volcano, deep into the lava flow, and just at that moment the Decimation occurred. Antonio lost his powers and was consumed alive by the extreme heat, dying almost immediately. Magma went crazy and blew up the volcano.

Hydro was a student of the Xavier Institute, and Hellion's lab partner. Able to breathe underwater, he developed a preference for sleeping in the school's swimming pool, which proved fatal when the Decimation event stripped him of his powers during the night, causing him to drown.

Ned Ralston was a mutant who was shaped like a Dragon. He wasn't taking part in the super-heroes world. Sally Floyd interviewed him for an article about ethnic diversity in Brooklyn. Later, the Decimation took away his ability to control his flight and he crashed on 5th Avenue in New York, dying in the process.

Gary Peterson was a mutant with physical underwater adaptations. During the M-Day, his operculum closed themselves and he died by drowning.

All descriptions taken from marvel.wikia.com

[Tony Stark]

I remember actual stories showing dead Mutants because of Wanda.

I know. Doom was behind it, but to say no one died when Wanda said no more mutants is just not right.

[Witchfan]

On panel deaths/

Jeannie Martin was a mutant from Long Island. After M-Day, she lost the strength in her neck and her vertebrae broke, killing her in the street.

Chamayra was the oldest child in the Ortega family. Chamayra was accidentally shot by her brother but was saved through the powers of Mr. M. She died from internal bleeding months later when the effects of Mr. M's powers were somehow reversed on M-Day when many other mutants lost their mutations.

A mutant owner of the Inferno Night Club in Manhattan, Tony Romeo possessed the ability to light his body on fire. After the events of M-Day, he lost the ability to control his powers and he burned to death in front of his nightclub. The full extent of his abilities likely remains unrevealed.

When Magma was vacationing in South America, she met Antonio, a mutant-pyrokinetic like her. They were together for two weeks until Magma's vacation was over. She tried to convince Antonio to go with her to the Xavier Institute, but he refused, and convinced her to spend an extra week together. Four days later, they both leapt from a helicopter into the La Cumbre volcano, deep into the lava flow, and just at that moment the Decimation occurred. Antonio lost his powers and was consumed alive by the extreme heat, dying almost immediately. Magma went crazy and blew up the volcano.

Hydro was a student of the Xavier Institute, and Hellion's lab partner. Able to breathe underwater, he developed a preference for sleeping in the school's swimming pool, which proved fatal when the Decimation event stripped him of his powers during the night, causing him to drown.

Ned Ralston was a mutant who was shaped like a Dragon. He wasn't taking part in the super-heroes world. Sally Floyd interviewed him for an article about ethnic diversity in Brooklyn. Later, the Decimation took away his ability to control his flight and he crashed on 5th Avenue in New York, dying in the process.

Gary Peterson was a mutant with physical underwater adaptations. During the M-Day, his operculum closed themselves and he died by drowning.

All descriptions taken from marvel.wikia.com

If any mutants did die because of Wanda, are you sure they didn't come back to life due to Everything Lives at the end of Secret Wars?

[BroHomo]

If any mutants did die because of Wanda, are you sure they didn't come back to life due to Everything Lives at the end of Secret Wars.

there's no on panel evidence that suggests this

[leokearon]

If any mutants did die because of Wanda, are you sure they didn't come back to life due to Everything Lives at the end of Secret Wars?

it doesn't help the X-writers were lazy when it came to restoring mutant powers

[MyriVerse]

On panel deaths/

Jeannie Martin was a mutant from Long Island. After M-Day, she lost the strength in her neck and her vertebrae broke, killing her in the street.

Chamayra was the oldest child in the Ortega family. Chamayra was accidentally shot by her brother but was saved through the powers of Mr. M. She died from internal bleeding months later when the effects of Mr. M's powers were somehow reversed on M-Day when many other mutants lost their mutations.

A mutant owner of the Inferno Night Club in Manhattan, Tony Romeo possessed the ability to light his body on fire. After the events of M-Day, he lost the ability to control his powers and he burned to death in front of his nightclub. The full extent of his abilities likely remains unrevealed.

When Magma was vacationing in South America, she met Antonio, a mutant-pyrokinetic like her. They were together for two weeks until Magma's vacation was over. She tried to convince Antonio to go with her to the Xavier Institute, but he refused, and convinced her to spend an extra week together. Four days later, they both leapt from a helicopter into the La Cumbre volcano, deep into the lava flow, and just at that moment the Decimation occurred. Antonio lost his powers and was consumed alive by the extreme heat, dying almost immediately. Magma went crazy and blew up the volcano.

Hydro was a student of the Xavier Institute, and Hellion's lab partner. Able to breathe underwater, he developed a preference for sleeping in the school's swimming pool, which proved fatal when the Decimation event stripped him of his powers during the night, causing him to drown.

Ned Ralston was a mutant who was shaped like a Dragon. He wasn't taking part in the super-heroes world. Sally Floyd interviewed him for an article about ethnic diversity in Brooklyn. Later, the Decimation took away his ability to control his flight and he crashed on 5th Avenue in New York, dying in the process.

Gary Peterson was a mutant with physical underwater adaptations. During the M-Day, his operculum closed themselves and he died by drowning.

All descriptions taken from marvel.wikia.com

See. That's not Wanda. Sounds like the problem is gravity, fire, water, lava, and other stuff.

No. I'm not serious.

[BroHomo]

it doesn't help the X-writers were lazy when it came to restoring mutant powers

lol..uh you know it wasn't up to them right?

[MaximoffTrash]

I blame Wanda.
She being responsible for the mutante wipeout was surprising but then i remembered that Wanda in the West Coast Avengers turned in a villain as well.So thats something that have sort of a precedent.
I think the unstable nature of the Chaos magic is something that should be taken in consideration when discussing those actions by Wanda.
Wanda was trained by Agatha ,but i think that is something that must have taken a toll in Wanda personality.Plus the unstable relationships of Wanda with her family (Pietro,Magneto) and her being in love with a robot are all things i keep in mind to make me not say that she is a evil natured character but does not wash away the culpability of the mutante wipeout of House of M.

That is basically the Bendis mindset, she has been insane before why not again, regardless of the situation?
And to be real here, Chaos Magic, the real one written by Busiek never really drive Wanda nuts, it's hard to control, yep, but Wanda never get Chthon mode. Those time she did it was due to other types of powers like in-betweener.

AD/HoM denied Chaos Magic and make it just mutant power. So what is this inherently unstable power you are referring to?
She doesn't really care that much about Magneto until Bendis/Byrne decided so.

[leokearon]

lol..uh you know it wasn't up to them right?

You mean despite the fact the mutant race returned in AvsX and the whole universe was reborn in Secret Wars, the writers weren't allowed to repower anyone

[BroHomo]

You mean despite the fact the mutant race returned in AvsX and the whole universe was reborn in Secret Wars, the writers weren't allowed to repower anyone

You got it!!!

[Iron Maiden]

and keep in mind that all of this happened after he murdered a teenaged girl. no look of surprise at what he had done (like Magneto with Kitty Pryde). no apologies. he just left her bloody corpse and departed.

If you go back to the panel where she attacked him, after she thought her father was dead after once again attacking first, Doom is on the defensive against her. If her father was too stupid to remove his daughter from a dangerous situation, that's also on her father. There were a lot more powerful people there than them that could handle the situation.

[MyriVerse]

You don't get to play the defensive card when you're the villain. Blaming Cassie would be blaming the victim.

[Iron Maiden]

I didn't mean to say I thought they were being intimate because, again, I don't believe he actually had any romantic/sexual interest in her. My point is that IF we're going by the logic that he was doing that because he had true feelings for her, then you can very much fall under the rape by deception zone, 'cause he was marrying her for SOME reason, right? And even if you wanna believe he was expecting some form of celibate marriage, you'd still have a romantic or platonic relationship created out of deception and manipulation. IF Doom wanted her to be his wife because he truly cared for her, he was doing that through immoral means. But that's all a moot point anyway, since like I've said, I don't believe that was his goal.

And yeah, I saw the the panel where he gives her a ''choice'', but as mentioned, consent is not black and white, and people can be tricked into giving it. He wasn't giving her all of the choices he knew she had. He wasn't giving her the choice to remember who she was and THEN make her own decisions based on that. When your choices are based on lies, there is no real free will. At that point, it's clear Wanda was deeply in love with him and saw him as her savior. It's easy to give someone a choice when they are brainwashed to be a different person like that.

And if you think his only goal there was to keep her safe from trauma again, he had no secret agenda at all AND he was not looking for a relationship, what was the marriage for? And why did he pull such an 180 at the end of the story, and went from loving and caring to this:



When he could've easily taken the blame without specifically showing spite towards Wanda, calling her a mere ''conduit of power''? Why did he leave her behind if his goal was to keep her safe from the people who trumatized her? And why he never showed any sign of care for her again after this, if it was an act? Why would Marvel editorial go through the trouble of specifically painting him as the bad guy and leave it at that if their intention was to tell us he was on the right side of the story? This is what I was talking about: any scenario with Doom not being the bad guy here just leads to more questions. I think it's much, much more likely that he was painted as the bad guy because that was the point of the story.

I take the view of the author over yours. The interview has been removed from the Marvel Site during some of the updates but here is a link to a post from 2014 where I quote Heinberg


Marvel.com: Why did you want Doom in this series playing such a prominent role?

Allan Heinberg: To my mind, Doctor Doom was the only sorcerer powerful enough—and invested enough—to have been able to successfully engineer the Scarlet Witch's prolonged disappearance. And I also loved the idea that Doom's obsession with finding his own mother paralleled Wiccan's quest to find the Scarlet Witch.

Marvel.com: Do Doom and Wanda share any sort of history from past stories you’re tapping into here or are you creating this whole?


Allan Heinberg: If Wanda and Doom share a romantic history in the Marvel Universe, I'm unaware of it. I just loved the idea of Doom's initially having sought out Wanda to exploit her reality-altering power only to then fall in love with her. And I thought perhaps Wanda might remind Doom of his sorceress mother.

Marvel.com: What can you say about Doom’s motivations for his actions here? Are the Young Avengers right to view him as an out and out bad guy or is there some altruism at work?

Allan Heinberg: Doom's motivations are going to become very clear in CRUSADE #7. But I have to say that, where Wanda is concerned, I think Doom believes his motives are altruistic. He is still a psychopathic narcissist, but he's also a man in love. Or at least he's behaving like a man in love.

And don't forget the follow up to Doom's departure from the scene where Heinberg is clearly explaining that Doom is definitely providing some cover for Wanda as he leaves her behind knowing that their time together is over and he lost.

[Michael Watkins]

If you go back to the panel where she attacked him, after she thought her father was dead after once again attacking first, Doom is on the defensive against her. If her father was too stupid to remove his daughter from a dangerous situation, that's also on her father. There were a lot more powerful people there than them that could handle the situation.

[URL=http://s5.photobucket.com/user/IronMaiden99/media/[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/MB%20comic%20Scans/Avengers%20and%20the%20Childrens%20Crusade/avgrs_childrens_crusade_cassie_zps138e44f9.jp]

Shameful. In doom's own words (from when he resurrected Cassie) he killed her in cold blood. The situation is only dangerous because Doom can't subdue a significantly smaller and weaker individual without killing them.