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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Spidey is definitely AU. In the original run, he knew Gwen at high school, which wasn't the case in 616 (they actually met at college), and as you say, modern tech was used. The current digital follow up Spidey: School's Out adds Ganke, who is the same age as Peter, whereas he's at least 10 years younger than Peter in 616, and is Miles' friend instead of his.
    Okay, but the important question is, does the retcon has any effect to the present day? If not, I can just ignore it.

    Same question with all of other retcon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Personamanx View Post
    The sliding timescale of the Marvel Universe doesn't make any sense. Time travel and alternate universes don't make it any better. If it creates issues for you, then you either find a way to rectify it for yourself story wise or just try not to think about it too much.

    Embrace the contradictions as a novel aspect of long-form storytelling in corporate-owned monthly periodicals.
    I want to say that sounds like making an excuse for bad writing, but considering the long history of comics, multiple writers and series running at the same time, I know it's not the case. Often the writing is fine, there's just so many of them someone bound to make mistake. It's still a problem though.

    If a series has an inconsistent continuity, especially if it isn't clear when or where they change, and if I have to constantly adjust my expectation and mindset because of it, then it will affect my enjoyment. I shouldn't have to do that.

    Unless I just read one story and stop, be it one issue or one arc. Then, I can just judge it by that story alone, since continuity doesn't matter in that context. Assuming of course, that one story doesn't rely on plot point in the 90s or whatever.

    I haven't really decided how I want to approach this, but that's one method.

    I'm ignoring the rest for now, because seems there are things people haven't agreed yet and. You can just tell me what's the conclusion.

  2. #17
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    Marvel has not cared about consistency for 15 to 20 years now. In the last 5 years, they have formalized this indifference with "Age of Ultron", "Ultimates" and a few other things.
    Current pull-file:
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    In the last 5 years, they have formalized this indifference with "Age of Ultron", "Ultimates" and a few other things.
    What do you mean? How did they formalize it in those stories?

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    Marvel has not cared about consistency for 15 to 20 years now. In the last 5 years, they have formalized this indifference with "Age of Ultron", "Ultimates" and a few other things.
    Okay, that's fine. I just want to confirm it. Looks like the best way for me really is to read it by story arc or just enjoy the action while ignoring everything else that's not that story arc, or follow from the beginning until I realize things stop making sense. Following a series or two full of crossover in this kind of continuity will only annoy me.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 07-10-2018 at 01:43 AM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    Marvel has not cared about consistency for 15 to 20 years now. In the last 5 years, they have formalized this indifference with "Age of Ultron", "Ultimates" and a few other things.
    Well, no.

    There's a difference between caring about consistency and putting slavishness to continuity above the story at hand.

    In a shared universe that's been going on for more than 50 years and is continually being added to week after week from every angle, there's no human way to have continuity be tight as a drum across the board. It's simply impossible. And, I believe most would say, it's ultimately not something that needs to be paid that much attention to. If things generally line up, great. In some areas it's going to be tighter, in some it's going to be looser.

    What's happening in whatever story is being told at the moment is more important than how perfectly it lines up, timeline-wise, with the thirty or forty other books being published in the same month.

  6. #21
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    In a shared universe that's been going on for more than 50 years and is continually being added to week after week from every angle, there's no human way to have continuity be tight as a drum across the board. It's simply impossible. And, I believe most would say, it's ultimately not something that needs to be paid that much attention to.
    Uh, yeah. That is pretty much what Marvel has been saying, and why they do not care at this point.



    What do you mean? How did they formalize it in those stories?
    In "Age of Ultron", Wolverine made one time-jump too many, breaking time. The implication at the end (based on musing by Pym and other scientists) was that they were lucky to still have any sort of linear time at that point.

    In "the Ultimates", there is explication from Galactus that more or less establishes that history is flexible (not unlike the future). When Captain Marvel reacts to that as if it were a problem, Galactus points out that time is not broken, it has always been like that, and it is fine. (The idea is basically to tell readers "do not worry, it is okay".)


    Following a series or two full of crossover in this kind of continuity will only annoy me.
    Generally, if two series are not written by the same writer, do not assume that they will correspond.
    Current pull-file:
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    Uh, yeah. That is pretty much what Marvel has been saying, and why they do not care at this point.
    "Don't care" implies that something could be done, but isn't only due to lack of desire or effort.

    Maintaining tight continuity at all times, across multiple titles and reaching back decades, is just impossible.

    I believe Marvel cares enough about continuity to make a honest effort to have it line up as much as possible. So I think there's always attention paid to continuity. It's just unreasonable for anyone to expect it to be an exact science or for it to be Marvel's paramount concern.

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Okay, I just remember Magneto. How about him? Is he still a Holocaust survivor? I think he still is, because it's so iconic, and I remember during the AXIS era they talk about it. How does his age work? Is he also, like the others, age slowly, or is there an in-story explanation?

    As I wrote that I remember he was turned into a baby once. Is that still canon?

  9. #24
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    Magneto is still a holocaust survivor. Not sure about the de-aging, or the details thereof.


    I believe Marvel cares enough about continuity to make a honest effort to have it line up as much as possible. So I think there's always attention paid to continuity. It's just unreasonable for anyone to expect it to be an exact science or for it to be Marvel's paramount concern.
    I agree that it is impossible. But, I recall Quesada making comments to the effect of "I don't care, neither should the readers" a few times, independent of how possible it would be to stay consistent.
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  10. #25
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    As a publisher and as an editorial mandate I don't think they care at all

    At all

    Within mythos I think all the history of active heroes with a few exceptions like cap, thor, namor is all relatively recent, mostly starting with ff which in mythos I think is supposed to be about 10 years ago in universe time

    I think ultimates sort of rationalised that as time is stretchy in a way

    But with all practical purpose, I think it come down to ww2 heroes, then the ff, then everything else after them, nothing else is very specific and is just shifted to more current analogy as real time passes

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kilderkin View Post
    As a publisher and as an editorial mandate I don't think they care at all

    At all

    Within mythos I think all the history of active heroes with a few exceptions like cap, thor, namor is all relatively recent, mostly starting with ff which in mythos I think is supposed to be about 10 years ago in universe time

    I think ultimates sort of rationalised that as time is stretchy in a way

    But with all practical purpose, I think it come down to ww2 heroes, then the ff, then everything else after them, nothing else is very specific and is just shifted to more current analogy as real time passes
    Why the FF? Why are they a milestone? They have to update the tech and time everytime they portray how they go to space?

    Whoa, I thought Namor is one of the oldest mutant or something? ...or is that based on publication, not the story?

    I do think it makes sense to count the time as 10 years back if they want to make the heroes 'current' or 'trendy' but that means the way I have to approach this really is not as an ongoing, but as stories cut off by certain periods.

    Now I know why they make a new number #1 every year. That really is how they want people to read it. Start with this new number #1 now, rely on flashback for back story or go read back issues if you want, but those no longer matter as much as the present.

    That also allows them to handwave any mistake they make last year while making easy jumping on and off point for readers so they can start or stop reading anytime they like by the year.

  12. #27
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    Magneto was actually de-aged at end of a Defenders story then made an adult again when the X-Men title was revived. But I don't think it was done to explain his vitality. These were early/mid-70's stories so it wasn't an issue yet, in fact he didn't have the Holocaust background yet.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Why the FF? Why are they a milestone? They have to update the tech and time everytime they portray how they go to space?

    Whoa, I thought Namor is one of the oldest mutant or something? ...or is that based on publication, not the story?


    I do think it makes sense to count the time as 10 years back if they want to make the heroes 'current' or 'trendy' but that means the way I have to approach this really is not as an ongoing, but as stories cut off by certain periods.

    Now I know why they make a new number #1 every year. That really is how they want people to read it. Start with this new number #1 now, rely on flashback for back story or go read back issues if you want, but those no longer matter as much as the present.

    That also allows them to handwave any mistake they make last year while making easy jumping on and off point for readers so they can start or stop reading anytime they like by the year.
    It's starts with FF#1 because that was Marvel's first big hit when they got back into the superhero game and is thought of as the start of "The Marvel Age".

    The Namor thing is best to ignore. Stan started that first mutant stuff back in the early 60's, but since then there have been other mutants who exist in canon older.

  14. #29
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    As a publisher and as an editorial mandate I don't think they care at all

    At all
    Statements from Quesada, Breevort and Alonso would indicate a studied and deliberate indifference. (Make of this paradox what you will.) But, yeah, they really do not care.



    I think ultimates sort of rationalised that as time is stretchy in a way
    It was more a question of time being fluid. But, yes, the past was/is not fixed in placed. The idea (as explained in issue 6?) is that some events are dragged forward more easily than others. Reed Richards et al made an ill-advised trip to Earth's high orbit 10-15 years ago. That was always 10-15 years ago, around the same time that a high school kid got bitten by a radioactive arachnid.

    But, while World War 2 always happened over the course of the 30s and 40s, Captain America is thawed out later and later, generally towards the beginning of that 10-15 year window. Marvel introduced a vague "great disaster" (similar to the reasoning in DC's "Legion of Superheroes") to ambiguate the exact number of years until the "distant futures shown in various "2099" comics. (The same logic could be applied to some of the other impossible futures Marvel has shown over the year. Other futures will simply be ignored.)
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