Would It Be Easier If There Was No Shared Universe?

[Trey Strain]

So you have to make a choice then would you win more if you cater to the casual reader or the dependable customers who like weird and complicated. I think a person can get into a series like Nero Wolfe and Sherlock Holmes better than superhero comics.

The casual customer imatters the most. Growth in a market occurs at the margins.

DC used to have two versions of Atlantis -- one with Aquaman and one with Lori Lemaris. And nobody cared! Today, the people who post on message board would poop a brick over that.

The old way was better.

[The Dying Detective]

The casual customer imatters the most. Growth in a market occurs at the margins.

DC used to have two versions of Atlantis -- one with Aquaman and one with Lori Lemaris. And nobody cared! Today, the people who post on message board would poop a brick over that.

The old way was better.

So what changed then?

[Jon Clark]

Technically no character was designed to even live on the same world as the others. But what makes you think other are more suited to share the same Earth?

I think certain heroes like Batman and Green Arrow are more suited to a world where the scale of threats is a lot smaller than what Green Lantern or Superman faces on a regular basis. I can picture the more powerful heroes living in a world that faces alien invasions every other week or has guys who can destroy city blocks with a glance. A world with things like those seems less suited to the idea that a regular Joe fighting psychos in make-up is a major event.

[The Dying Detective]

I think certain heroes like Batman and Green Arrow are more suited to a world where the scale of threats is a lot smaller than what Green Lantern or Superman faces on a regular basis. I can picture the more powerful heroes living in a world that faces alien invasions every other week or has guys who can destroy city blocks with a glance. A world with things like those seems less suited to the idea that a regular Joe fighting psychos in make-up is a major event.

Well if you could segregate the characters that do make sense to live in the same world as the others it could help people suspend their disbelief more. At least no one will be asking why can Batman live in a broken city filled with crime while a city with less crime being committed like Metropolis can exist. And I as I revised in the OP maybe characters like the Charlton characters as a whole can inhabit an Earth and share a book so there is indeed another way to make team books namely take the characters who are incapable of holding a solo title and put them together in a book and an Earth for them to inhabit.

[Jon Clark]

So what changed then?

Well, letter columns show that even early on there were people wondering things like how the Atlantises related.

The main change was that the guys writing those letters trying to reconcile the various inconsistencies in the letter column began to become the guys writing the actual stories. And once you had the first story that had something like connecting the events of one old Batman story to an old Superman story it opened the floodgate for more. It became commonplace for guys like Roy Thomas or E Nelson Bridwell to have obscure connections referenced (1940's character Air Wave and modern Green Lantern both names Jordan- must be relatives). And fans came to accept and in many cases expect it. The Batman fan appreciated that his JLA appearances might actually refer to his solo adventures or that he might have a cameo in this month's Superman or Flash tale.

[DGraysonWorldsGreatestSpy]

The Volume One version of Batman # 26 released in 1,943 had a future in the year 3,000 had Saturnians invading with a Robotic Army and Earth led by Batman to resist and travel to Saturn and defeat the Iron Heel Of Fura. This Story was followed up in Batman 67 / Detective Comics # 216 with 50 Years later Earth discovering a Extra Dimensional Planet for Mining. These stories couldn’t exist in a Universe with the Justice League or Future Legion Of Superheroes as a Robotic Invasion is something Meta Human takes on yearly. The Batman Of this Timeline was Bruce Taylor Wayne and the 20th to be named Bruce Wayne. Considering how often Batman is expected to live forever in Superman Universes I would like a Universe where Bruce Wayne is not a immortal but a descendant 1,000 yrs after his time takes up the Mantle.

[Jon Clark]

Well if you could segregate the characters that do make sense to live in the same world as the others it could help people suspend their disbelief more. At least no one will be asking why can Batman live in a broken city filled with crime while a city with less crime being committed like Metropolis can exist. And I as I revised in the OP maybe characters like the Charlton characters as a whole can inhabit an Earth and share a book so there is indeed another way to make team books namely take the characters who are incapable of holding a solo title and put them together in a book and an Earth for them to inhabit.

I wasn't commenting on whether segregating the characters makes sense, just on the fact that something like Superman, Wonder Woman and Doctor Fate in the same world is less jarring then say General Zod, Batman, Darkseid, and Doctor Mid-nite.

[The Dying Detective]

Well, letter columns show that even early on there were people wondering things like how the Atlantises related.

The main change was that the guys writing those letters trying to reconcile the various inconsistencies in the letter column began to become the guys writing the actual stories. And once you had the first story that had something like connecting the events of one old Batman story to an old Superman story it opened the floodgate for more. It became commonplace for guys like Roy Thomas or E Nelson Bridwell to have obscure connections referenced (1940's character Air Wave and modern Green Lantern both names Jordan- must be relatives). And fans came to accept and in many cases expect it. The Batman fan appreciated that his JLA appearances might actually refer to his solo adventures or that he might have a cameo in this month's Superman or Flash tale.

I see thanks and I think the guys who answered the fan mail should not have done that now people are left with continuity issues that never make sense and any attempt try and make sense of it will only be conjecture and it's now part of the problem that has plagued DC since Crisis on Infinite Earths hit and writers tried to bring back elements from Pre-Crisis only to make things worse requiring things like Zero Hour to try and streamline things which was only a band aid on a large wound.

[The Dying Detective]

I wasn't commenting on whether segregating the characters makes sense, just on the fact that something like Superman, Wonder Woman and Doctor Fate in the same world is less jarring then say General Zod, Batman, Darkseid, and Doctor Mid-nite.

Okay my mistake still I think you did hit a nail on the head though i doubt it could make things less difficult. You have to keep up with the spin-off titles that come out of Superman and at the same time try to keep up with the spin-off titles that come out of Wonder Woman and the like.

[millernumber1]

Revision: I didn't think this through unfortunately

While mulling over the convoluted continuity and how often the editorial fouls up though admittedly that's just human error at work. I came into a thought would continuity be a lot easier if there was no shared universe? And when I say this mean just plant the characters on separate Earths where they are the only characters that exist and matter there. Superman and anyone related to him can live on Earth S. Batman and anyone related to him can live on Earth B. Wonder Woman and anyone related to her can live on Earth WW. Green Lantern and anyone related to him can live on Earth GL. The Flash and anyone related to him can live on Earth F. Green Arrow and anyone related to him can live on Earth GA. Aquaman and anyone related to him can live on Earth A. And if certain characters who cannot sustain a solo title they can just share a book, like the Charlton characters who aside from Captain Atom have not been able to have successful solo titles can just share a title and live in their own world, Earth CH. Heck if you want to give the Atom a solo book he and anyone related to him can live on Earth TA. Yes this concept is basically the same as DC's Earth M concept and that brings me to the pros and cons of this idea

Pros

-No books will be tied down by what happens in another book because each world is it's own one. i.e. character A died in this book so he or she cannot used until something brings them back to life.

-Continuity will still be convoluted but at the very least other book won't be stepping on each others toes because something happened in book A that affects book B. And continuity could be more straight forward.

-Writers will have more freedom to do as they please.

-Crossovers (depending on your perspective) will be more interesting again. I never quite liked the team-up and events because they don't have the level of culture shock and uniqueness that they used to back then and if a crossover happened it would be something special (well to me at least).

-Spin-off titles are still possible just confined to the character's designated Earth.

Cons

- Team books like the Teen Titans, Birds of Prey, Young Justice, Red Hood and the Outlaws, and Justice League would not exist (though Earth One Teen Titans is an attempt to try and make the Teen Titans without Dick Grayson).

- Relationship between characters will be like pen pal relationships.

- No inter-franchise pairings.

And that's all I have at least for now. So what do you think will such an idea work? Do you hate it? Let your thoughts be known. And if you have more pros and cons say it.

I mean, I've been saying for years that Batman and Superman shouldn't exist in the same universe, because they represent two different understandings of the way the world works (at least since Year One).

[Frontier]

It would probably make continuity easier, but I don't think it would be as rewarding or interesting as a shared universe.

[The Dying Detective]

I mean, I've been saying for years that Batman and Superman shouldn't exist in the same universe, because they represent two different understandings of the way the world works (at least since Year One).

And I agree and their disagreements was honestly the crux of what made their crossovers interesting but in my eyes after so many years of living in the same world that got old and now when they team-up it's no longer special any more. In this set up if a writer wanted to team any character up it has to be something special that enable that them to do so without diluting what makes these things interesting. At least here it would amke some sort of sense because they would be literally worlds apart.

[The Dying Detective]

It would probably make continuity easier, but I don't think it would be as rewarding or interesting as a shared universe.

Well admittedly what I am proposing can sort of be considered a shared universe just in the style of the Kingdom Hearts games you just require outside factors to make crossover possible. Which will create the necessary wham to make things exciting and I found that that method to be more interesting than having to cram so many characters into one world and try have it make sense. The only way to resolve the problem of having continuity make sense by having characters who were never designed to breathe the same air is to have the same writer on every title or segregate them into their own worlds and only crossover occasionally.

[Jon Clark]

I like All-Star Squadron a lot more then Superman/Batman: Generations.

The difference: One is an attempt to combine the work of various creators into a coherent on-going tale. The other is looking thru a small-window at a possibly fascinating world at something trying to reconcile 70+ years of stories.

That's kind of how I feel about segregating the DCU. Batman might work better for Batman stories if there was no need to worry about how co-existing with Superman, Green Lantern, Lobo, Swamp Thing and John Constantine impact the tale. But I'd miss the Batman/Superman interplay, the JLA/Titans family feel, the ability to toss together an Outsiders team that come from having Batman part of a larger universe.

[The Dying Detective]

I like All-Star Squadron a lot more then Superman/Batman: Generations.

The difference: One is an attempt to combine the work of various creators into a coherent on-going tale. The other is looking thru a small-window at a possibly fascinating world at something trying to reconcile 70+ years of stories.

That's kind of how I feel about segregating the DCU. Batman might work better for Batman stories if there was no need to worry about how co-existing with Superman, Green Lantern, Lobo, Swamp Thing and John Constantine impact the tale. But I'd miss the Batman/Superman interplay, the JLA/Titans family feel, the ability to toss together an Outsiders team that come from having Batman part of a larger universe.

Well if the All-Star Squadron was the work of a single creator it probably would have been less problematic. And when you put it that way I concede that it can be interesting in it's own way.

The Volume One version of Batman # 26 released in 1,943 had a future in the year 3,000 had Saturnians invading with a Robotic Army and Earth led by Batman to resist and travel to Saturn and defeat the Iron Heel Of Fura. This Story was followed up in Batman 67 / Detective Comics # 216 with 50 Years later Earth discovering a Extra Dimensional Planet for Mining. These stories couldn’t exist in a Universe with the Justice League or Future Legion Of Superheroes as a Robotic Invasion is something Meta Human takes on yearly. The Batman Of this Timeline was Bruce Taylor Wayne and the 20th to be named Bruce Wayne. Considering how often Batman is expected to live forever in Superman Universes I would like a Universe where Bruce Wayne is not a immortal but a descendant 1,000 yrs after his time takes up the Mantle.

What's interesting is that thiscan work within the confines of the idea i have not just in how things were done when no one took continuity seriously.