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  1. #31
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    Romero was the best Joker ever. To be honest, I do love the campy Batshow and I think it captures most of the "main" villains perfectly.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubberLotus View Post
    True, but it's all trumped later on by "Pop Goes the Joker/Flop Goes the Joker", whose Baby-Jane Towser predicted Harley in a downright eerie fashion.
    Wow. Absolutely. The parallels between Baby-Jane would only be more impressive, if she still showed infatuation in her last scene.

    It has to be one of the best Joker episodes. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the reason there was an homage in the Burton movie.

    I've only rewatched a handful of episodes, and it seems like, besides the obvious themes, all recurring villains have patterns. As far as I can tell:

    *Catwoman is playful and just wants to create tension with Batman. Insteado of being all cool like Pfiefer or Hathaway, she is just having fun. She is like a sexy class clown.
    *The Penguin is all about over-the-top ways to steal for the sake of his reputation as a genius. He is probably the best prepared and seasoned.
    *The Riddler is the most concerned about the clues. While the Penguin loves to brag about what he did, the Riddler is more about what he is going to do, which usually turns out to be a setup.
    *King Tut tends to be about domination.
    *Egghead is about finding clever loopholes, he is a big picture guy, like Pinky and the Brain. However, he became kind of ordinary with Olga.

    The Joker, however, conceives crimes as pieces of art that mock society.

    Also, as portrayed by Madge Blake, Aunt Harriet Cooper is a terrific character. The adorable old woman kinda embodies hope. Can't really have her in the Manor, but in modern comics, her faith in decency would only pop out more.
    Last edited by Rafa-Rivas-2099; 07-29-2014 at 11:49 PM.

  3. #33
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Romero was great at capturing the things that really make Joker work to me.

    Joker is all about his own ego and having fun. That's why he calls himself the Clown Prince of Crime. He wants the spotlight. That's why he considers himself Batman's biggest foe. he wants the spotlight. It's less about actually committing crimes to him that being seen as THE number one criminal.

    And the reason he's a criminal is simply because it's fun. It's not because he's some anarchist, agent of chaos, or dime store philosopher. The guy just wants to party.

    And Romero just really seemed to get that. Joker was out there playing with his toys and goofing on Batman. What other criminal would challenge Batman to a surfing competition? You're not going to see that kinda of stuff from Penguin or Mr. Freeze.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafa-Rivas-2099 View Post
    Wow. Absolutely. The parallels between Baby-Jane would only be more impressive, if she still showed infatuation in her last scene.

    It has to be one of the best Joker episodes. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the reason there was an homage in the Burton movie.

    I've only rewatched a handful of episodes, and it seems like, besides the obvious themes, all recurring villains have patterns. As far as I can tell:

    *Catwoman is playful and just wants to create tension with Batman. Insteado of being all cool like Pfiefer or Hathaway, she is just having fun. She is like a sexy class clown.
    *The Penguin is all about over-the-top ways to steal for the sake of his reputation as a genius. He is probably the best prepared and seasoned.
    *The Riddler is the most concerned about the clues. While the Penguin loves to brag about what he did, the Riddler is more about what he is going to do, which usually turns out to be a setup.
    *King Tut tends to be about domination.
    *Egghead is about finding clever loopholes, he is a big picture guy, like Pinky and the Brain. However, he became kind of ordinary with Olga.

    The Joker, however, conceives crimes as pieces of art that mock society.

    Also, as portrayed by Madge Blake, Aunt Harriet Cooper is a terrific character. The adorable old woman kinda embodies hope. Can't really have her in the Manor, but in modern comics, her faith in decency would only pop out more.
    I'm going to throw in a curvevball here and ask, which villain do you think had the best traps for Batman? I think Catwoman's were the most inventive. Joker's I thought were too over the top and complicated at times.
    Last edited by protege; 06-04-2018 at 09:06 PM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by protege View Post
    I'm going to throw in a curvevball here and ask, which villain do you think had the best taps for Batman? I think Catwoman's were the most inventive. Joker's I thought were too over the top and complicated at times.
    I think that in the '66 universe, the Penguin is by far Batman's worst enemy. The Riddler has the worst obsession about Batman and the Joker probably still gets the highest vitim count, but to me, the Penguin is the one that really manages to bother Batman down to his bones. Hi is way too persistent, makes everything revolve around his whims, he has a more business-oriented mind when it comes to crime and he basically mocks laws and social values in a very aware manner, something that is almost sacred to this version of Batman (second to Gordon). At least that's the way I see it.

    Catwoman, instead, seems to be a hot, fun babe, who clearly has the most intense sexual chemistry with Batman (and it goes for him as well), but somehow resources to crime as a way to get his attention. She can be lethal, but it's almost as if she know nothing is going to work against him. She is talented as a criminal, very creative as you said, but you get the feeling that she is not taking it too seriously. However, this is less true for her appearances in seasons 1 and 3.

    To me, the only other business savy criminal is Egghead, but he is more like a smart investor.

    The Joker is the most creative, but I agree that he kinda goes over the top without really triumphing as the best. The way many people see these writers, he is Morrison to the Penguin's Moore. The Penguin has it all in this show.

    One villain that got too little attention was False-face. He was perhaps the scariest villain and had Batman on his toes, even more than the Joker in his first appearance. His MO is too much fun.

    Another villain I'm rediscovering is Marsha. Out of the rest of the generic, hot, non-Catwoman villains, she is the only one capable of stealing the show. Olga paled next to Egghead (even if those last 3 schemes totally sucked compared to his first), but Marsha can go toe to toe with the Penguin. For my other '66 thread, the one in which we're making fake episode synopsis, I chose Jane Fonda as an Ideal Poison Ivy... However, I'm starting to think that a recasted Carolyne Jones might do a better job. Or perhaps it would be more fun to have Marsha competing against Poison Ivy.

  6. #36
    Spectacular Member MrStatham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Romero was great at capturing the things that really make Joker work to me.

    Joker is all about his own ego and having fun. That's why he calls himself the Clown Prince of Crime. He wants the spotlight. That's why he considers himself Batman's biggest foe. he wants the spotlight. It's less about actually committing crimes to him that being seen as THE number one criminal.

    And the reason he's a criminal is simply because it's fun. It's not because he's some anarchist, agent of chaos, or dime store philosopher. The guy just wants to party.

    And Romero just really seemed to get that. Joker was out there playing with his toys and goofing on Batman. What other criminal would challenge Batman to a surfing competition? You're not going to see that kinda of stuff from Penguin or Mr. Freeze.

    This. After a few decades of pretty much every Joker story being him trying to press Batman's buttons, playing up the duality between them, and then really not doing anything with that because Batman absolutely won't bend or break in any way really worth trying, it is interesting to look back and have a Joker who isn't really interested in Batman and is more interested in himself. The character can work many ways, but sometimes it just doesn't hurt to have a take which isn't scary or philosophically deep; Romero's Joker is a lot of fun, and easily as worthy as Nicholson, Hamill and Ledger. I also think the best elements of my favourite take - Nicholson - are taken from Romero, in that during the better parts of Batman '89, where the Joker isn't laden down with the pointless revelation that he killed Bruce's parents, the Joker is all about him. The Joker hates Batman in Batman '89 because he's stealing HIS spotlight. The Joker takes over TV for laughs, poisons people's beauty products so using them makes them look like his one-dollar-bill-worthy face, he steals the 200th Anniversary parade from the city, he even tries to steal the good guy's love interest. All of that is basically a slightly darker Romero take.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrStatham View Post
    This. After a few decades of pretty much every Joker story being him trying to press Batman's buttons, playing up the duality between them, and then really not doing anything with that because Batman absolutely won't bend or break in any way really worth trying, it is interesting to look back and have a Joker who isn't really interested in Batman and is more interested in himself. The character can work many ways, but sometimes it just doesn't hurt to have a take which isn't scary or philosophically deep; Romero's Joker is a lot of fun, and easily as worthy as Nicholson, Hamill and Ledger. I also think the best elements of my favourite take - Nicholson - are taken from Romero, in that during the better parts of Batman '89, where the Joker isn't laden down with the pointless revelation that he killed Bruce's parents, the Joker is all about him. The Joker hates Batman in Batman '89 because he's stealing HIS spotlight. The Joker takes over TV for laughs, poisons people's beauty products so using them makes them look like his one-dollar-bill-worthy face, he steals the 200th Anniversary parade from the city, he even tries to steal the good guy's love interest. All of that is basically a slightly darker Romero take.
    I think that the Joker character has been cornered by being too much about his obsession with a guy he simply won't break. It works fine for a movie or an arc, but then, its starts repeating itself. That is the Joker of Ledger and the version we have been getting in the comics. It's also the Joker of Moore, but I think it wasn't meant to substitute his regular plots, just provide a glimpse of motivation. The Joker of Burton, BTAS, and specially Romero, is very flexible and it would be easy to make them very recurring without wearing them out.
    The Penguin has a similar problem, he went from bold, creative and temperamental, to having too much to lose and kind of a coward.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafa-Rivas-2099 View Post
    I think that the Joker character has been cornered by being too much about his obsession with a guy he simply won't break. It works fine for a movie or an arc, but then, its starts repeating itself. That is the Joker of Ledger and the version we have been getting in the comics. It's also the Joker of Moore, but I think it wasn't meant to substitute his regular plots, just provide a glimpse of motivation. The Joker of Burton, BTAS, and specially Romero, is very flexible and it would be easy to make them very recurring without wearing them out.
    The Penguin has a similar problem, he went from bold, creative and temperamental, to having too much to lose and kind of a coward.
    I agree, someone trying to get Batman to break IS interesting... except we know it will not ever happen, same way that Joker will never stop, and never die. Whatever the faults of The Killing Joke, the actual joke at the end and it's relevance to Batman and Joker sums up the whole thing so neatly everything since has been laboring a point that needs no elaboration. I prefer the Joker when he's not screwing with Batman but going after others - the arc in Gotham Central, or when he killed Sarah Essen Gordon and it was the Commissioner who had to make the call that 99% Batman 'faces' (with everyone knowing what it will be.)

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Haddock View Post
    I agree, someone trying to get Batman to break IS interesting... except we know it will not ever happen, same way that Joker will never stop, and never die. Whatever the faults of The Killing Joke, the actual joke at the end and it's relevance to Batman and Joker sums up the whole thing so neatly everything since has been laboring a point that needs no elaboration. I prefer the Joker when he's not screwing with Batman but going after others - the arc in Gotham Central, or when he killed Sarah Essen Gordon and it was the Commissioner who had to make the call that 99% Batman 'faces' (with everyone knowing what it will be.)
    The Joker being the opposite of Batman doesn't really mean that he has to be fixated on him. Batman certainly isn't obsessed about him, attending to a wide array of problems. It doesn't mean that they are the only opposites to each one. Superman, Robin, Swamp Thing or Wonder Woman are conceptually the opposite of the Joker as well and the Riddler, Bane, Killer Moth and the Penguin are perfect opposites of Batman. The real reason the Joker is Batman's main enemy is his versatility, and he is loosing it. The same can be said about the Riddler and the Penguin.

    I'm not much of a fan of the Essen thing, and that's for the same reason I think killing off Stan Merkel was sloppy writing. The are both alive in DKR, and while it's not canon, it's always a good idea not to make one of Batman's greatest stories (the best for some) explicitly out of continuity. You want to keep it a possibility.
    Last edited by Rafa-Rivas-2099; 08-03-2014 at 04:07 PM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafa-Rivas-2099 View Post
    The Joker being the opposite of Batman doesn't really mean that he has to be fixated on him. Batman certainly isn't obsessed about him, attending to a wide array of problems. It doesn't mean that they are the only opposites to each one. Superman, Robin, Swamp Thing or Wonder Woman are conceptually the opposite of the Joker as well and the Riddler, Bane, Killer Moth and the Penguin are perfect opposites of Batman. The real reason the Joker is Batman's main enemy is his versatility, and he is loosing it. The same can be said about the Riddler and the Penguin.

    I'm not much of a fan of the Essen thing, and that's for the same reason I think killing off Stan Merkel was sloppy writing. The are both alive in DKR, and while it's not canon, it's always a good idea not to make one of Batman's greatest stories (the best for some) explicitly out of continuity. You want to keep it a possibility.
    Well DKR is pretty much confirmed as out of continuity (or at least alternate reality) because it's explicitly stated he retired when Jason Todd died (though that hadn't happened at the time of writing.) Unless Tim and Damian both came and went within about a year at the very most of Jason's death (and both totally vanished without trace) then it cannot possibly fit into continuity as it stands. I can understand why people don't like the Essen death but it works for me because to me, Joker should take as much pleasure out of screwing with the police as he does with Batman, for similar reasons: they have protocol, procedure and law versus his own total chaos.

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member RobinFan4880's Avatar
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    Cesar Romero is the best live action version of the Joker we have ever had. No one can compete with him.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Haddock View Post
    Well DKR is pretty much confirmed as out of continuity (or at least alternate reality) because it's explicitly stated he retired when Jason Todd died (though that hadn't happened at the time of writing.) Unless Tim and Damian both came and went within about a year at the very most of Jason's death (and both totally vanished without trace) then it cannot possibly fit into continuity as it stands. I can understand why people don't like the Essen death but it works for me because to me, Joker should take as much pleasure out of screwing with the police as he does with Batman, for similar reasons: they have protocol, procedure and law versus his own total chaos.
    I agree on that last part, and I'll add that Essen was created to add drama to Gordon's life and some writers can't handle that type of characters once they settle (or how to make a story relevant without killing off random characters), so it was just a matter of time. So far, I've missed the Jason part; however, it would have still be interesting having Essen and Merkel creating uncertainty, and it would have pay off now that Jason is alive again.

  13. #43
    Amazing Member CapeandCowl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobinFan4880 View Post
    Cesar Romero is the best live action version of the Joker we have ever had. No one can compete with him.
    Agreed, although Jack is my favorite so-called modern take on the character. Romero and Jack both brought a sense of fun to the part, and that works on so many levels.

  14. #44
    Spectacular Member GMiller's Avatar
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    Kind of a funny story: When I was young, from maybe 3 to 5, I made my dad check the closet every night before bed to see if The Joker was in there..It was the Cesar Romero version which terrified me..This was 6-7 years before Nicholson's Joker...To this day, I still find Romero's Joker pretty creepy..I honestly think it's due to his not shaving his mustache, and having make-up put on it...I swear that really bothers me!!! lol

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMiller View Post
    Kind of a funny story: When I was young, from maybe 3 to 5, I made my dad check the closet every night before bed to see if The Joker was in there..It was the Cesar Romero version which terrified me..This was 6-7 years before Nicholson's Joker...To this day, I still find Romero's Joker pretty creepy..I honestly think it's due to his not shaving his mustache, and having make-up put on it...I swear that really bothers me!!! lol
    I still remember some of my early impressions of the show:
    *Why did the Riddler shaved his mustache? I don't like this mustacheless Riddler. I hate this character.
    *I have no clue how did I get the impression that the Joker is Batman's "worst enemy" even though he appeared as much as the Penguin. Later I wondered how come in cartoons his hair was green (I perceivet Romero's as blonde). And how come he is sometimes bald with a mustache?
    *False-face is scary.
    *Did Catwoman die or that wasn't her last episode? Did I miss the explanation?
    *How come I never catch the one in which Batman transorms Mr. Freeze?
    *Are Batgirl and Catwoman portrayed by the same actress? This must be why Catwoman is black when Batgirl appears.
    *I hate all those regular-women villains (Olga, Zelda, Marsha, Nora, etc)

    It's also funny that I forgot all the one-timers save and False-face and Clock King, who happened to appear in BTAS... despite not being a Batman villain. I guess that was influence of the 60s show. I later learned that Egghead and King Tut were made-up. I never remembered Shame (even though he is one hell of a villain).

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