MCU Thunderbolts

[PhantomBoom]

I was kind of expecting a serious tone what with the name, dealing with the Sentry, etc.

But this is the MCU so...

You're not telling me anything here.
You have not seen this movie, no one has, it's barely begun filming, so you can't tell me it's it doesn't fit the movie's tone, or makes sense thematically.
Just say you don't like it and leave it at that, don't try to justify it in ways that don't make any sense.

And don't start this whole "it can't be serious it's in the MCU" bit, this has been disproven so many times.

The movies could never achieve it because they would never have pulled off the villain build up.

This doesn't even make any sense.
The movies absolutely could've done it, it would just be pointless, because the comics already did it, there would be no surprise factor.

[AnakinFlair]

I was kind of expecting a serious tone what with the name, dealing with the Sentry, etc.

But this is the MCU so...

The only way you could 1:1 replicate this exactly is in a cartoon (Avengers Assemble actually did adapt the classic T-Bolts storyline, funnily enough).

The movies could never achieve it because they would never have pulled off the villain build up.

I have to disagree.

They made two different Suicide Squad movies featuring villains that had never appeared in any other movie (excepting Harley and Boomerang in the second SS movie).

They could have introduced all the villains in the first 10 minutes of the movie and set them up as the Thunderbolts. The odd duck would be Taskmaster, who was both already in another movie, and a completely different take on the character.

Instead, Marvel chose to use the property to feature secondary characters that had already appeared and deserved to be seen again. And frankly, no matter how much we'd love to see Pugh and Steinfeld team up again, it makes more sense for Yelena to appear in Thunderbolts than it would for her to be in a Young Avengers project. She had good chemistry with Harbour, so you bring in Red Guardian. Bucky is a natural fit with those two, and so on and so on.

Who knows, maybe after the movie, they'll do a Disney+ series with a proper Thunderbolts cast.

[Frontier]

I have to disagree.

They made two different Suicide Squad movies featuring villains that had never appeared in any other movie (excepting Harley and Boomerang in the second SS movie).

They could have introduced all the villains in the first 10 minutes of the movie and set them up as the Thunderbolts. The odd duck would be Taskmaster, who was both already in another movie, and a completely different take on the character.

Instead, Marvel chose to use the property to feature secondary characters that had already appeared and deserved to be seen again. And frankly, no matter how much we'd love to see Pugh and Steinfeld team up again, it makes more sense for Yelena to appear in Thunderbolts than it would for her to be in a Young Avengers project. She had good chemistry with Harbour, so you bring in Red Guardian. Bucky is a natural fit with those two, and so on and so on.

Who knows, maybe after the movie, they'll do a Disney+ series with a proper Thunderbolts cast.

I think they could totally have had it standalone and introduce the OG T-Bolts as a new team and get their backstories in said film, I just meant in the sense of taking historical Marvel villains and then the surprise reveal that they're T-Bolts like in the comics because the MCU kills villains so much and never seeded any of them in past movies...well, I guess now they've got Taskmaster and Ghost but that's about it.

I'm still not convinced this isn't secretly a Black Widow sequel.

[Frobisher]

I hope the tiny explosion from Black Window is back in an expanded role.

[PhantomBoom]

I think they could totally have had it standalone and introduce the OG T-Bolts as a new team and get their backstories in said film, I just meant in the sense of taking historical Marvel villains and then the surprise reveal that they're T-Bolts like in the comics because the MCU kills villains so much and never seeded any of them in past movies...well, I guess now they've got Taskmaster and Ghost but that's about it.

I'm still not convinced this isn't secretly a Black Widow sequel.

Do you have anything to say here that both is not a baseless accusation and being negative for the sake of being negative?

[phonogram12]

I have to disagree.

They made two different Suicide Squad movies featuring villains that had never appeared in any other movie (excepting Harley and Boomerang in the second SS movie).

That's true. And the latter was so good that they handed the director the keys to DC's cinematic kingdom. I know this is off topic, but man, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that the future of DC movies is in great hands.

[Frontier]

Do you have anything to say here that both is not a baseless accusation and being negative for the sake of being negative?

Do I really come off that way?

That's true. And the latter was so good that they handed the director the keys to DC's cinematic kingdom. I know this is off topic, but man, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that the future of DC movies is in great hands.

I'm waiting to see how his take on Superman shakes out.

[ComicNoobie]

Even though I would have preferred a more classic Thunderbolts team, my biggest complaint is still the lack of diverse powers/skills. Ghost of all people is the only unique person on the team. Why didn't they at least use Abomination as their Hulk stand in? It's a shame they can't use Vulture because Sony. MCU Vulture has all the tools for a villain redemption story.

[80sbaby]

I think they could totally have had it standalone and introduce the OG T-Bolts as a new team and get their backstories in said film, I just meant in the sense of taking historical Marvel villains and then the surprise reveal that they're T-Bolts like in the comics because the MCU kills villains so much and never seeded any of them in past movies...well, I guess now they've got Taskmaster and Ghost but that's about it.

I'm still not convinced this isn't secretly a Black Widow sequel.

How could they pull off the misdirection? Unlike comics, these characters don't spend 99% of their time masked. So as soon as the audience sees their faces, we'd know they're villains.

[godisawesome]

How could they pull off the misdirection? Unlike comics, these characters don't spend 99% of their time masked. So as soon as the audience sees their faces, we'd know they're villains.

I don’t see them being able to pull of misdirection with the main roster... but I don’t trust the Contessa...

A twist they could still do would be to almost “double reverse” the original one - a collection of ex-antagonists trying to make good and act as an Avengers’ successor team, only to find out their superiors are corrupt in some way, and be forced to choose between rebelling and being painted as criminals again, or staying loyal and accepting a heroic identity but knowing its false.

Honestly, a lot of this is going to come down to who or what the antagonist is.

[James Cameron]

I don’t see them being able to pull of misdirection with the main roster... but I don’t trust the Contessa...

A twist they could still do would be to almost “double reverse” the original one - a collection of ex-antagonists trying to make good and act as an Avengers’ successor team, only to find out their superiors are corrupt in some way, and be forced to choose between rebelling and being painted as criminals again, or staying loyal and accepting a heroic identity but knowing its false.

Honestly, a lot of this is going to come down to who or what the antagonist is.

Isn't Sentry the antagonist?

[PhantomBoom]

How could they pull off the misdirection? Unlike comics, these characters don't spend 99% of their time masked. So as soon as the audience sees their faces, we'd know they're villains.

A lot of these comic reveals can't work outside of the comics, both thanks to the changes in medium and the fact that because the comics already did them so the answer to the mystery is already out there and known to people so they're done away with, changed or recontextualized.

Let's remember the Green Goblin's identity used to be a mystery, but every time he shows up in a cartoon, game or movie we already know it's Norman Osborn, Spectacular Spider-Man is the only adaptation I can remember that actually adapted the mystery and they had to do a bait and switch with Harry for it to be believable.

Or how the Winter Soldier when it first released didn't even try to pretend like the Winter Soldier was anyone other than Bucky.

The Thunderbolts reveal in particular is just impossible outside of the comics, thanks to being able to tell apart and match the actors body shapes and sizes, along with the fact we can actually hear their voices, unlike the comics where so many mysteries hinge on the fact we're stuck with speech bubbles.

[Frontier]

How could they pull off the misdirection? Unlike comics, these characters don't spend 99% of their time masked. So as soon as the audience sees their faces, we'd know they're villains.

I mean, because they had new suits/costumes?

Screaming Mimi looks nothing like Songbird.

[80sbaby]

I mean, because they had new suits/costumes?

Screaming Mimi looks nothing like Songbird.

But the actress playing her would be the same. And if you had this as her first introduction then we'd have no clue she was a villain, so the shock factor is still lost.

[Frontier]

But the actress playing her would be the same. And if you had this as her first introduction then we'd have no clue she was a villain, so the shock factor is still lost.

Yeah, I know.

Failing to actually introduce them in prior movies you would have to do what the Suicide Squad movies did (man, these franchises just can't stop being compared to each other) and introduce them and their backstories into the movie if you wanted the classic T-Bolts roster.