MCU Thunderbolts

[Omega Alpha]

Why would Yelena or Blonsky respect and follow the orders of John Walker? Or Zemo?

Why would Zemo respect or follow the orders of anyone but himself?

And why would anyone follow Blonsky, of all people?

None of the people indicated so far really is a good fit for leader (if Bucky isn't on the team), just Yelena seems less plausible than most.

[j9ac9k]

John Walker would be a more natural choice for leader in this setup- even if he failed as Cap, he has a long and respected military career- unless Bucky is also a part of the team, as rumored (then Yelena makes even less sense).

LOL - John Walker?? The man who lost his **** on his first assignment as Cap, started yelling, "Do you know who I am?!" the second he faced resistance from a civilian, got his ass whupped a bunch of times, took an illegal super-soldier serum because of his insecurities, murdered someone in public, tried to murder Sam, then was dishonarably discharged? What kind of "more natural choice" is that?? No wonder Walker ended up failing ass-backwards into another job if this is the attitude people have.

[The Cool Thatguy]

None of the people indicated so far really is a good fit for leader (if Bucky isn't on the team), just Yelena seems less plausible than most.

She's the only mentally stable member on the team yet.

[Omega Alpha]

LOL - John Walker?? The man who lost his **** on his first assignment as Cap, started yelling, "Do you know who I am?!" the second he faced resistance from a civilian, got his ass whupped a bunch of times, took an illegal super-soldier serum because of his insecurities, murdered someone in public, tried to murder Sam, then was dishonarably discharged? What kind of "more natural choice" is that?? No wonder Walker ended up failing ass-backwards into another job if this is the attitude people have.

As indicated on the show itself, he's a very, very poor choice for Cap. America,.but not necessarily for this kind of team. And yeah, he should be in jail, but so should a decent amount of the MCU, if we're to be honest.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

As indicated on the show itself, he's a very, very poor choice for Cap. America,.but not necessarily for this kind of team. And yeah, he should be in jail, but so should a decent amount of the MCU, if we're to be honest.

Yet his "personality" (y'know, the ONLY trait you've mentioned that would prevent Yelena from being an effective leader) as outlined makes him more suited than her? An unhinged man that has a penchant for losing his control and huge insecurity issues?

Grrrrreeeeeeaaaaaaaat leader material there. MUCH better than Yelena. /s

If your argument is that none of them are good enough to be a leader, then leave it at that. That's good enough.

[Anthony W]

As indicated on the show itself, he's a very, very poor choice for Cap. America,.but not necessarily for this kind of team. And yeah, he should be in jail, but so should a decent amount of the MCU, if we're to be honest.

The need to downplay is too strong. Nevermind that...

Walker: Prior to be handed the Cap gig, that he wasn't suited for he had won the medal of honor three times ran hostage resuce and counter terrorism and whose body was studied by scientist at MIT. This was straight from the Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

Blonsky: Thunderbolt Ross actually had to cash some chips to bring this guy in on loan from the Royal Marines. That means that no one in America at that time could do the job.

Zemo: C'mon it's Zemo. Y'all memories can't be that bad.

Yelena: Superspy who spent the majority of her time as a superspy brainwashed, so I would slow your row on saying just how "sane" she is. Has the least leadership skills of anyone on this list.

[HollowSage]

The need to downplay is too strong. Nevermind that...

Walker: Prior to be handed the Cap gig, that he wasn't suited for he had won the medal of honor three times ran hostage resuce and counter terrorism and whose body was studied by scientist at MIT. This was straight from the Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

Blonsky: Thunderbolt Ross actually had to cash some chips to bring this guy in on loan from the Royal Marines. That means that no one in America at that time could do the job.

Zemo: C'mon it's Zemo. Y'all memories can't be that bad.

Yelena: Superspy who spent the majority of her time as a superspy brainwashed, so I would slow your row on saying just how "sane" she is. Has the least leadership skills of anyone on this list.

Walker would be the most likely candidate for leadership if not for the fact that he failed so spectacularly when given the chance. Blonsky and especially Zemo can’t be trusted.

That pretty much leaves Yelena as the only one listed who Val can trust to keep these guys in line.

[Anthony W]

Walker would be the most likely candidate for leadership if not for the fact that he failed so spectacularly when given the chance. Blonsky and especially Zemo can’t be trusted.

That pretty much leaves Yelena as the only one listed who Val can trust to keep these guys in line.

The thing is, Walker only failed as Captain America, he didn't get to where he was by not being able to lead people. He failed at the one job he wasn't suited for.

Yelena on the other hand was raised by the Red Room and spent the majority of her time as a brainwashed superspy/assassin and has the least leadership experience but this is the one that can be trusted? The one who is going to keep Zemo, Blonsky and Walker in line?

I hope she has the trigger to the explosive neck collars near, and even then I still don't think it's going to be enough.

[HollowSage]

The thing is, Walker only failed as Captain America, he didn't get to where he was by not being able to lead people. He failed at the one job he wasn't suited for.

Yelena on the other hand was raised by the Red Room and spent the majority of her time as a brainwashed superspy/assassin and has the least leadership experience but this is the one that can be trusted? The one who is going to keep Zemo, Blonsky and Walker in line?

I hope she has the trigger to the explosive neck collars near, and even then I still don't think it's going to be enough.

Captain America is like the ultimate leadership position. Walker was chosen to be the new Captain America because of his experience as a soldier but he cracked under the pressure. That just proves that being a good soldier isn’t enough.

Are you saying there are some after effects of the mind control Yelena suffered? I’ve seen no evidence of that in her or any of the other Widows so I’m not sure how that’s an issue. Surely Val would be aware if it was.

Yelena wouldn’t be intimidated by any of them and the only one who could give her real trouble in a fight is Blonsky in his Abomination form. Plus she seems more capable of getting along with everyone. Walker and Zemo already have bad blood and I don’t see them becoming friendly with Blonsky.

If they all took a vote on leader and couldn’t vote for themselves then I see them all voting for Yelena. Even her enemies like her.

[BeastieRunner]

If this team is taking on Cap and co, why not Ross as the leader, with the eventual Zemo betrayal and takeover of the team?

[Anthony W]

Captain America is like the ultimate leadership position. Walker was chosen to be the new Captain America because of his experience as a soldier but he cracked under the pressure. That just proves that being a good soldier isnÂ’t enough.

Cap is the ultimate leadership position, but the Thunderbolts aren't. While Walker did fail at that job Yelena spent her time as a Widow brainwashed. Can that not be counted as a failure as well? At least Black Widow isn't the ultimate leadership position.

Are you saying there are some after effects of the mind control Yelena suffered? IÂ’ve seen no evidence of that in her or any of the other Widows so IÂ’m not sure how thatÂ’s an issue. Surely Val would be aware if it was.

1. If there was do you think she would care?

2. Going by her background and her behavior in Black Widow does she strike you as a stable person?

Yelena wouldnÂ’t be intimidated by any of them and the only one who could give her real trouble in a fight is Blonsky in his Abomination form. Plus she seems more capable of getting along with everyone. Walker and Zemo already have bad blood and I donÂ’t see them becoming friendly with Blonsky.

And when it comes time to make an actual plan? She has the least leadership expierence and most of her time as a Black Widow was spent under mind control. That doesn't lend itself to coming up with a plan.

If they all took a vote on leader and couldnÂ’t vote for themselves then I see them all voting for Yelena. Even her enemies like her.

I doubt they would be able to vote on who gets to lead. Talking about what may or may not happen in a movie is draining. It's no longer a "must see" to me but a "see what happens." I'll just try to stop thinking about it until more concrete stuff emerges.

[HollowSage]

Cap is the ultimate leadership position, but the Thunderbolts aren't. While Walker did fail at that job Yelena spent her time as a Widow brainwashed. Can that not be counted as a failure as well? At least Black Widow isn't the ultimate leadership position.

The point is he cracked under pressure. Leading the Thunderbolts would put him under pressure. I don’t see what being brainwashed has to do with being a leader. Captain America and most other superheroes have been brainwashed/mind controlled at some point. It’s almost a right of passage.

1. If there was do you think she would care?

2. Going by her background and her behavior in Black Widow does she strike you as a stable person?

Yes. I think Val would care if one of her assets were compromised. That would be a big deal.

She seems as stable as anyone who becomes a superhero and most importantly she seems more stable than the other candidates listed here.

And when it comes time to make an actual plan? She has the least leadership expierence and most of her time as a Black Widow was spent under mind control. That doesn't lend itself to coming up with a plan.

There is more to leadership than coming up with plans. Zemo can come up with the plans otherwise what is he there for? The President of the U.S.A is the leader of the military but he’s not coming up with military plans. Someone else does that and he gives the yea or nay.

[The Kid]

I like Yelena as leader simply because Pugh's version of the character is probably one of the best characters to come out in the MCU in a long time. She's amazing and they should play to that like they did with RDJ and Iron Man

[Adam Allen]

I like Yelena as leader simply because Pugh's version of the character is probably one of the best characters to come out in the MCU in a long time. She's amazing and they should play to that like they did with RDJ and Iron Man

That could work, as long as they avoided that problem of the X-Men movies with Mystique, where the charisma of the one actor is supposed to carry the movie. Not that an MCU movie would be likely to make such a mistake, just saying.

Haven't read the whole thread, but wouldn't Barton make the most sense for leader? Hawkeye led the comics Thunderbolts in some early incarnations, didn't he? Or even if not -- with the Avengers gone, he has both is own personal redemption for all the people he assassinated, and the implied danger of a team of unstable superhumans being sent in the place of the Avengers. Would make sense that he'd be guilted into leading/training a Thunderbolts team.


Edit: Ah, I see, Yelena actually will be leading the team. Yeah, if the confirmed members so far are her, Blonsky, Walker or Zemo as field leader? She probably would be the one you could rely on best to both corral the various personalities/actions of their teammates, and bother with actually trying to stick with the plans/goals you sent them there for.

Or just again, can definitely see how that could work. I don't think any of the others seems like a better choice, honestly.

[j9ac9k]

If your argument is that none of them are good enough to be a leader, then leave it at that. That's good enough.

I agree with this. I didn't mean to dump on John so hard specifically, but so far, the members that are speculated to be on the team all have things working against them.(as well as things working for them) Yalena might not be anyone's first choice in general, but given who we think her teammates will be, she's not the worst choice, is all I've been saying.

Oh, we also don't know what the T-Bolts mission statement will be. John and Emil's past as soldiers v. Yalena as an assassin might actually be the reason she gets picked if their missions (and for all we know it might just be the one mission) are more in line with her skillset.